another aspect that Dave touches on in this is the fact that brake competence has two parts , grip ( stopping power) and heat storage within the metal drum or disc . and related to that cooling rate And I would add feel of pedal . .
Heat storage is set by the weight of the metal getting hot . Done
I personally think the Buick drums from around 1960 are the very best overall brakes ever made
Try that , 300 affectionato , as in 12 “ x3” ( 300 are 2.5) and the cast iron drums are embedded on beautiful finned aluminum castings . That soaks up heat AND rapidly throws it away , probably faster than any disc today can — because for a given temp there is obviously way more surface dissipation area, more bulk storage in metal and — those beautiful aluminum fins ..
There is a fellow road racing a 30O B today with those drums , zero issues . And they do not really need boost , nice proportional feel of drums imho goes away with boost , , discs just do not have that feel . Plus disc front with drum back equals lots if bad compromises . They do not play well together across the pressure range . One is self energizing one is not . No balancing valve can fix that .
When you put discs inside the 14 or even 15” wheels those discs are the size of what is on a 68 dodge dart ,— all the positive things about discs ONLY come when they are BIG , — for a given pad the farther out from center obviously the more braking torque,( small discs have very limited stopping torque , directly proportional to diameter ) so small diameter heavy car = disaster, nothing to do with hills. —- yet.
Just whoa power . Even more important , there is way less metal in a snall disc to hold the heat on a down hill . Less metal = real hot — real fast . Instant fade But drums can be made wide , like the 3” buicks , added fins all over — and yes heavy .
These cars are not cobras or Ferrari , any talk of unsprung drum weight on a 5000 lb car is bs for 300 guys - or Buick guys .
I have a 60 electra 225 , 4 of thise drums, — no car I have ever driven ever came close . A tad over boosted , but your control as driver is bulletproof.
At this point I have to say my 2013 grand Cherokee hemi with huge discs has the worst brakes I have ever ,dealt with , on off feel , and so bad I feel really insecure driving it . Over-boosted , touchy at first then feels like not going to stop even standing with two feet on pedal . Lets call it Toyota / grandma design “feel good to soccer mom “ marketing driven brakes. Even worse , the pedal goes down the harder you press ( thats ok) but braking whoa does not go up. Immediate terror if used to good brakes
The problem with Buick drums to mopar is 5” bolt circle wheels
So when putting discs on a 300 , have done that , I now go for 17” wheels , or just forget whole idea of putting discs on our cars . You get less…
If another 20 years, Buick on 300F lurks in mind..
The real reason conversion is prevalent is that getting “ total cintact” 12 “ 300 brakes ( two leading shoes in front) to work right is simply way beyond the average brake guy ( including me when I first started in this) , yet a clear memory of a brand new v8 stick 60 dodge unboosted drums was 120% positive .
The reason , determined much latter , was incompetence on the 300 “ brake restoration” , — later fixed up
Grabbing , pulling , low pedal , rapid drop of pedal with miles, — with all new parts , several times with bad results, —- all this IS in the competence of guy doing it .
If a guy says to you, those chrysler brakes were aways a dog , “ they all do that” find a new smarter guy . Carl K did ok with them
But dont put toy discs on a big car. Will bite you one day
If having grief , find that 1960 factory publication on “ new three plat-form brakes” … Follow it EXACTLY , especially shoe to drum fit . Even dealers had grief, 57-60 why that came out . And if your brake parts are still useable ( 50 % lining) don't charge them or turn / change drum arbitrarily . Well worn in is terrific , just restore wet side .
Good subject , really
jkg
I just want to footstomp this message from Noel for the email archives. This is an important point especially for younger folks who may get into restoring and driving these cars in the future but who may not be familiar with downshifting for long downhill mountain stretches. What frequently happens? Constantly laying on the brakes going down a long stretch overheats them, the fluid can begin vaporizing causing bubbles in the brake fluid which defeats the hydraulic pressure ability of your brake fluid then it doesn’t work because stepping on the pedal you are now trying to compress gas vs liquid so you can’t create enough hydraulic pressure to keep the wheel cylinders actuated. Second gear is your friend (slower driving obviously) going down a long several percent grade. First gear for extreme grades, go slow. Last place you want to get brake fade is on a steep downhill. Just what you have to do. Let the speed racers behind you get mad. Better than the alternative.
D&K
Sent from my iPhone
Hi Mike,
I'll add my 2 cents to this discussion by saying 'It Depends' on where you'll be concentrating most of your G's cruising. If you're mostly in the mountainous topography of the eastern or western U.S. then your thoughts of converting to discs are reasonable. For me, living in the flatlands of metro Chicago, I've driven my factory drum brakes equipped F over 90,000 miles since 2009, and this brake setup has served me well. Have never bumped or slid into anything, rain or shine. That said, those of us running drums are well-served using our pushbuttons to downshift into Second and/or First when driving down curvy steep mountain grades. We need to anticipate and drive our classics as they would have been driven 60+ years ago and not like our modern cars with their brakes that never fade.
Noel Hastalis
Burr Ridge, IL
Awaiting your Asheville Meet Registration Forms!!!
I never understood the desire to convert. Jay Leno seems to be a big fan of this. I always felt you drive the car for the car it is. And if the drum brakes are adjusted properly they have always worked fine for me. Semi trucks have drum brakes. What is the big deal? I would prefer completely original car with original brakes and just drive it for the car it is, but everything is opinion and preference.
On 02/05/2026 2:16 PM, John Grady wrote:
agree, jkg
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