[Chrysler300] Digest Number 823

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[Chrysler300] Digest Number 823

From: <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:52:50 -0500

Title: [Chrysler300] Digest Number 823

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There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. RE: Chrysler 300 Hurst oil pressure
           From: john_nowosacki@xxxxxxxxxxx
      2. Re: For sale - 300F restoration project
           From: Donald L Smallwood <zincspot@xxxxxxxx>
      3. RE: Chrysler 300 Hurst oil pressure
           From: Russ Vaughan <Pacesetter300@xxxxxxxxx>
      4. Re: Chrysler 300 Hurst oil pressure
           From: Mike Apfelbeck <moparmike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
      5. Re: Chrysler 300 Hurst oil pressure
           From: paul holmgren <paulholm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
      6. Oil filter quality?
           From: Marshall R Larson <yelof@xxxxxxxx>
      7. Re: Chrysler 300 Hurst oil pressure
           From: John Hertog <crossram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
      8. Re: Oil filter quality?
           From: paul holmgren <paulholm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
      9. Mike`s 300 H
           From: "Patrik Strub" <patrik.strub@xxxxxxxxxx>
     10. Re: Oil filter quality?
           From: Russ Vaughan <Pacesetter300@xxxxxxxxx>
     11. Re: Advice needed: 413 and 727 leaks
           From: Mike Apfelbeck <moparmike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     12. Re: Oil filter quality?
           From: Mike Apfelbeck <moparmike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     13. Re: Chrysler 300 Hurst oil pressure
           From: Mike Apfelbeck <moparmike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     14. Re: Chrysler 300 Hurst oil pressure
           From: Russ Vaughan <Pacesetter300@xxxxxxxxx>
     15. my hurt 300k pictures and the other car
           From: greektruck@xxxxxxx
     16. Re: Oil filter quality?
           From: Kenneth Wilson <jblken@xxxxxxxxxxx>

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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 05:32:24 -0700
From: john_nowosacki@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Chrysler 300 Hurst oil pressure

I had this happen only one time on a 413 equipped car, when I changed the oil by driving the car up on ramps, and letting the oil drain out for a number of hours, as I got side-tracked by another project. The oil pump lost its prime, and therefore I had no pressure. I had to resolve this by removing the pump (luckily it's externally mounted) and packing it with Vaseline, then re-installing it. The gooey vaseline aided the pump in getting an initial re-prime, and all has been right with the world ever since.

I no longer wait this long before putting new oil back in, nor do I drive up on ramps to change it.
I recommend using a guage, just to be sure of how much/little pressure you have.
John

-----Original Message-----
From: annbarbq@xxxxxxx [mailto:annbarbq@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 6:11 AM
To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: stephen.schieser@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Chrysler300] Chrysler 300 Hurst oil pressure

I have a 300 Hurst with 77,044 miles on it. Drove it about 10 miles then
changed the oil. I used 10W30 Valvoline oil and Ford Motorcraft FL-1A oil
filter, the equivalent of Fram PH8A oil filter. Oil filter removed was FRAM PH8A.
After changing the oil, the oil pressure light stayed on ( no oil pressure
gauge on my car ). I replaced the oil pressure sending unit to the oil pressure
light, but still the light stays on, so apparently no oil pressure?

Any suggestions on resolving this oil pressure problem? I considered
removing oil pressure sending unit and installing mechanical oil pressure gauge to
confirm no oil pressure. Also I talked to NAPA about a new oil pump - they sell
a standard one, a high performance one, and a high performance and high
volume. Which one to buy if it turns out to be a failed oil pressure pump? Thank
you. Steve in Columbus, Ohio.

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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 06:43:44 -0600
From: Donald L Smallwood <zincspot@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: For sale - 300F restoration project

300 enthusiasts

Like Johln I have a 300 for sale, this one is a 99 300M VIN
2C3HE66G8XHxxxxxx purchased new 11/98.

Purchased a PT/GT with intentions of selling Carol's SUV. Guess what *!#!
she wants to keep her Brand X gas guzzler.

The M is loaded, has circa 70K miles, is champaign colored, has new
windshield, good tread, heated seats, CD/tape, auto stick, climate
control, sun roof, polished 17" wheels. Always garaged, no damage
history. Oil changed at 3K intervals.

Located in the Denver area and priced to move at $9750. Will start local
marketing effort next week.

Call or email with questions. Cell phone 303-601-7820.

Don Smallwood

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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:23:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Russ Vaughan <Pacesetter300@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Chrysler 300 Hurst oil pressure

This is not an uncommon problem. It happened once when my father had his oil changed at the dealership on our '62 300. First you should always put as much oil as possible in the filter before installing it. When you start your engine after changing the oil, the time it takes to fill the filter, your engine is running dry. Since I've done that, I have never had a pump not pickup oil from the pan. IF by chance you have the problem after filling the filter, A $5 priming rod from Mopar Performance (P4286800) will get things going. You must pull the distributor and drive gear, so set the engine at TDC and the slot in the gear will be horizontal(easy to remember when putting back together). The rod installs on a 3/8 drill and goes straight down to the pump drive. The drill must be run in reverse

as that's the way the pump runs. About 5 seconds of that and you should be done.

Not sure if this forum has discussed the issue, but the Fram PH8A might interchange with the Motorcraft FL1A filter, but it is a markedly inferior filter. The Motorcraft (made by Purolator) filter is the best inexpensive filter available for BB Chryslers. The Fram has less than 200 sq. in. of filter area, the filter media is glued in with cardboard and the drainback valve habitually leaks down.

Good luck with the engine.

300ly

Russ Vaughan

john_nowosacki@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
I had this happen only one time on a 413 equipped car, when I changed the oil by driving the car up on ramps, and letting the oil drain out for a number of hours, as I got side-tracked by another project. The oil pump lost its prime, and therefore I had no pressure. I had to resolve this by removing the pump (luckily it's externally mounted) and packing it with Vaseline, then re-installing it. The gooey vaseline aided the pump in getting an initial re-prime, and all has been right with the world ever since.

I no longer wait this long before putting new oil back in, nor do I drive up on ramps to change it.
I recommend using a guage, just to be sure of how much/little pressure you have.
John

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 08:40:56 -0800
From: Mike Apfelbeck <moparmike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Chrysler 300 Hurst oil pressure

Steve,
Sounds like the oil pump lost its prime. You could remove it and pack the
gears with white grease or Vaseline to get things restarted.The dealer
should have an "oil pump repair package" for a few bucks that contains all
the gaskets and "o" rings needed to service the oil pump. A long rotor,
high volume pump is available from Chrysler under part number P4007177.
I like to use a high volume pump, with a stock bypass spring inside, to
maintain stock oil pressure levels. Excessively high oil pressure in a
stock motor gains you nothing in the long run, it puts extra strain on the
distributor drive gear and takes more power to maintain (can actually
reduce gas mileage).Be careful about paying big bucks for a "high
performance " pump, sometimes these are just made up from standard castings
with stiff springs in the bypass for higher oil pressure. A high volume
pump should have a longer body than a standard one because of the taller
gears inside.
Mike

At 06:10 AM 12/2/2003 -0500, annbarbq@xxxxxxx wrote:

>Any suggestions on resolving this oil pressure problem? I considered
>removing oil pressure sending unit and installing mechanical oil pressure
>gauge to
>confirm no oil pressure. Also I talked to NAPA about a new oil pump -
>they sell
>a standard one, a high performance one, and a high performance and high
>volume. Which one to buy if it turns out to be a failed oil pressure
>pump? Thank
>you. Steve in Columbus, Ohio.

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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:56:17 -0500
From: paul holmgren <paulholm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Chrysler 300 Hurst oil pressure

Mike Apfelbeck wrote:

> Steve,
> Sounds like the oil pump lost its prime. You could remove it and pack the
> gears with white grease or Vaseline to get things restarted.The dealer
> should have an "oil pump repair package" for a few bucks that contains all
> the gaskets and "o" rings needed to service the oil pump. A long rotor,
> high volume pump is available from Chrysler under part number P4007177.
> I like to use a high volume pump, with a stock bypass spring inside, to
> maintain stock oil pressure levels. Excessively high oil pressure in a
> stock motor gains you nothing in the long run, it puts extra strain on the
> distributor drive gear and takes more power to maintain (can actually
> reduce gas mileage).Be careful about paying big bucks for a "high
> performance " pump, sometimes these are just made up from standard castings
> with stiff springs in the bypass for higher oil pressure. A high volume
> pump should have a longer body than a standard one because of the taller
> gears inside.
> Mike

WHOA THERE Folks, before you try dropping the pan to get at the pump,
Please think about what folks do to prime a fresh motor.
Get a Priming rud/tool, poping out the distributor is WAY easier then
dropping the pan and going after the pump. a few miniutes with the
electric drill and the priming tool will tell you something at least!

--
Paul Holmgren
Hoosier Corps #33, L-6
2 57 300-C's in Indy

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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:01:52 -0600
From: Marshall R Larson <yelof@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Oil filter quality?

Does anyone know of a report on filter quality such as the one done by
Consumer Reports about 15 years ago? At that time Fram was their top
rated filter. BTW Castrol was their top rated oil. Is there any
independent documentation that verifies the quality of current products?

Minnesota Marshall

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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:59:41 -0500
From: John Hertog <crossram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Chrysler 300 Hurst oil pressure

Paul Holmgren wrote: "WHOA THERE Folks..... "

Whoa there yourself, Paul.... this thread concerns a 300 Hurst... made in
1970 with a 440 RB motor. The oil pump is external and a piece of cake to
remove and replace. No need to remove the pan.

John Hertog
Sag Harbor NY

Mike Apfelbeck wrote:

> Steve,
> Sounds like the oil pump lost its prime. You could remove it and pack the
> gears with white grease or Vaseline to get things restarted.The dealer
> should have an "oil pump repair package" for a few bucks that contains all
> the gaskets and "o" rings needed to service the oil pump. A long rotor,
> high volume pump is available from Chrysler under part number P4007177.
> I like to use a high volume pump, with a stock bypass spring inside, to
> maintain stock oil pressure levels. Excessively high oil pressure in a
> stock motor gains you nothing in the long run, it puts extra strain on the
> distributor drive gear and takes more power to maintain (can actually
> reduce gas mileage).Be careful about paying big bucks for a "high
> performance " pump, sometimes these are just made up from standard
castings
> with stiff springs in the bypass for higher oil pressure. A high volume
> pump should have a longer body than a standard one because of the taller
> gears inside.
> Mike

--
Paul Holmgren
Hoosier Corps #33, L-6
2 57 300-C's in Indy

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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:27:58 -0500
From: paul holmgren <paulholm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Oil filter quality?

Marshall R Larson wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of a report on filter quality such as the one done by
> Consumer Reports about 15 years ago? At that time Fram was their top
> rated filter. BTW Castrol was their top rated oil. Is there any
> independent documentation that verifies the quality of current products?
>
> Minnesota Marshall

Submitted For Your Reading:

http://www.lesabret.com/filters/filter.html

a little tip for selecting filters
http://www.peugeotclub.org/peugeot/archive/General/2000/Jun/0075.html
I did this very thing on my 90's+ cars

AND here is a pretty good resource for an independant review
http://www.minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy.html

--
Paul Holmgren
Hoosier Corps #33, L-6
2 57 300-C's in Indy

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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:41:36 +0100
From: "Patrik Strub" <patrik.strub@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Mike`s 300 H

Congratulate to you Mike

Wow and we were allowed in your H Convertible to ride along!!

regards Patrik and Marisa Switzerland

In Swiss Chrysler magazine is a report over your H!!!! I send you a copy

Just got back from the annual car show put on by the AACA Volusia Region and
> the Ormond Beach Chamber of Commerce. My H convertible took first in it's
> class and also the Best of Show. Not bad considering there werea bunch of
> real
> nice Packards and even a '32 Duesenburg in the competition.
>
> Mike Meyer
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:46:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Russ Vaughan <Pacesetter300@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Oil filter quality?

The minimopar.net study has been widely quoted. It's where I got most of my information. Don't know what happened to it as it was never updated. I was anxious to see the results of some of the filters that were to be examined. It was a credible study to me. As a result I now use Motorcraft FL-1A in my "beaters" and Amsoil or Mobil One filters in anything newer or rebuilt. Anyone who currently uses Fram oil filters should read that study. They are made for a price for the Wal-Marts and K-Marts of the world. How Wal-Mart sells the Motorcraft filter for about the same price (Under $3) is a mystery to me.

Russ Vaughan

paul holmgren <paulholm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Marshall R Larson wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of a report on filter quality such as the one done by
> Consumer Reports about 15 years ago? At that time Fram was their top
> rated filter. BTW Castrol was their top rated oil. Is there any
> independent documentation that verifies the quality of current products?
>
> Minnesota Marshall

Submitted For Your Reading:

http://www.lesabret.com/filters/filter.html

a little tip for selecting filters
http://www.peugeotclub.org/peugeot/archive/General/2000/Jun/0075.html
I did this very thing on my 90's+ cars

AND here is a pretty good resource for an independant review
http://www.minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy.html

--
Paul Holmgren
Hoosier Corps #33, L-6
2 57 300-C's in Indy

Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

To send a message to this group, send an email to:
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:20:01 -0800
From: Mike Apfelbeck <moparmike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Advice needed: 413 and 727 leaks

Doug,
When you get your new O ring, take it down to an industrial supply house
and see if they can supply a "Viton" O ring in that size, it will last
longer than the original type. It will cost twice as much (another 50 cents
or so).
I vote for the cast-aluminum valve covers, the originals have to be
straightened perfectly and tightened just so, to seal, the first time you
forget and tighten the bolts you are back to square one, all over again.
Mike

At 05:27 PM 12/1/2003 +0000, dnkjones@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:

>Hi 300 folk,
>
>Well, the 413 transplant into my Pace Setter is one of those 'one step
>forward
>and two steps back' affairs. I finally got to where I could put fluids in it
>and two fairly familiar MoParly leaks immediately made themselves known.
>
>1) The pushbutton shift cable where it enters the transmission housing.
>Where do you get a new O ring for the cable? Does that really stop the leak
>or are there tricks you have learned over the years to stop this thing from
>leaking?
>
>2) The rear of the rocker covers, which are the old 4-stud variety that
>likes
>to 'canoe' when attached. Oil is pouring past the nice new cork gasket on
>the
>left rear corner. Should I go with a cast aluminum non-stock rocker cover
>set, or is there a secret 300 Club way to get the oil to stay inside the
>cover
>with the stock ones?

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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:28:29 -0800
From: Mike Apfelbeck <moparmike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Oil filter quality?

I don't care much for the idea of the cardboard end caps on the element,
inside the Fram filters.I use Wix or NAPA (also Wix) filters, steel end
caps, one less thing to worry about.

Mike

>Marshall R Larson wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know of a report on filter quality such as the one done by
> > Consumer Reports about 15 years ago? At that time Fram was their top
> > rated filter. BTW Castrol was their top rated oil. Is there any
> > independent documentation that verifies the quality of current products?
> >
> > Minnesota Marshall

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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:57:33 -0800
From: Mike Apfelbeck <moparmike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Chrysler 300 Hurst oil pressure

I should have added that, since the oil pump is so accessible, one should
take it off any newly acquired high mileage "B"motor and inspect the gear
and rotor for damage. Metal particles, bits of cooked valve seals and
carbon particles will be down in the oil pan on an older motor and some of
it will eventually find its way past the pickup screen. May not be
necessary but it's nice to know what you've got, once you get it home.

Mike

At 02:59 PM 12/2/2003 -0500, John Hertog wrote:
>Paul Holmgren wrote: "WHOA THERE Folks..... "
>
>Whoa there yourself, Paul.... this thread concerns a 300 Hurst... made in
>1970 with a 440 RB motor. The oil pump is external and a piece of cake to
>remove and replace. No need to remove the pan.
>
>John Hertog
>Sag Harbor NY
>

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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 14
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:35:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Russ Vaughan <Pacesetter300@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Chrysler 300 Hurst oil pressure

HI guys, First of all, 95% of the time this problem will go away if you just add oil ot the filter before installing it. If the pump worked fine before you drained the oil, I doubt there's any need to do anything but get it primed again.

As for high volume and high pressure pumps neither are really needed or desired unless the engine is set up with racing clearances. I have to disagree with Mike a little. He's certainly correct for high pressure pumps. High volume pumps really aren't the ticket for our Big Blocks either. Love them as we do and as well designed as they are, they do have a flaw from an oiling prespective. They have very poor drain down at higher RPM's. One of the reasons Chrysler went to six bolt valve covers is to eliminate the leaking with the four bolt covers. Note Chevy had 4 bolt covers until '87 with no oil retention and leaking issues like Chrysler had. Run a 413 up 5 - 6 grand for any period of time and the upper end will collect a lot of oil. Of the six quarts typically held, there might be four or more in the top end of the motor. A high volume pump will only make that problem worse and put even more oil at the top of the motor. Once the oil has done it's job and lubricated

the part it went to, it needs to get back in the sump as soon as possible. NOT hang around the top of the motor creating a lot of friction, pressure and things that do the motor no good. This is one of the reasons why a windage tray is usually good for about 15-30 Hp. It keeps the oil down in the sump where it can't rob HP.

300ly

Russ Vaughan

paul holmgren <paulholm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Mike Apfelbeck wrote:

--
Paul Holmgren
Hoosier Corps #33, L-6
2 57 300-C's in Indy

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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 23:07:03 EST
From: greektruck@xxxxxxx
Subject: my hurt 300k pictures and the other car

the other car was my sisters 03 supercharged cobra. sweet car. goto
ANCHORAUTO.COM
goto Car Check My car is number 9704M
sisters car is 9708J
they are at the bottom two of the list. i got the worst damage.
Yes, this is the same person who did the paint a couple months ago.
tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 20:23:56 -0800
From: Kenneth Wilson <jblken@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Oil filter quality?

About two years or so ago, I remember many discussions, on the SDML
(Shelby Dodge cars of the 80"s -news group) about how bad are the Fram
oil filters! I do not recollect all that was covered but the jest of
discussion was that 1) using the frams significantly shorten the life of
the 4 cyl turbos. 2) members cut open Fram, and other filters, -
finding contaminmates/foreign particles in the Fram plus poor sealing of
the filter element - just generally bad construction/ cheap filter
material 3) that the Fram back flow valve of questionable reliability.
The many recommendations were to use the dealer filters (best) or the
Napa (I think -the "gold" something). I have been buying the filters
by, the dozen, from my local Dodge dealer for use on my '89 Dodge
Shellby, ' 87 Chrysler GTS.

Ken Wilson
San Jose, Ca.

Marshall R Larson wrote:

>Does anyone know of a report on filter quality such as the one done by
>Consumer Reports about 15 years ago? At that time Fram was their top
>rated filter. BTW Castrol was their top rated oil. Is there any
>independent documentation that verifies the quality of current products?
>
>Minnesota Marshall
>
>________________________________________________________________
>The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
>Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
>Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
>
>
>To send a message to this group, send an email to:
>Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>For list server instructions, go to http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

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