Re: [Chrysler300] Paint advice

["Roger Schaaf" <obiwan10@xxxx>]

You are correct. It is a matter of semantics. Myself and some that I know refer to any sanding after painting as color sanding to differ from sanding in preparation for painting.

The clear coat applied after the color coat will tend to fill all the orange peel from the color coat. I however do know that in the case of one car that I had painted, that the painter also did sand the base coat. The car came out beautifully and was final clear coat sanded to give the smoothness and depth of a fine lacquer job(this look on poly urethane paint is very hard to achieve as when polished they appear to me to have a certain "wavy not totally flat" characteristic that lacquer usually did not).

My concern was more directed to those who paint and do not sand at all(Mercedes and BMW?) and somehow think that heavy work with a buffer and rubbing compound is going to give a show finish. This will never happen unless the painter can apply a perfectly flat clear coat(this usually will not happen either).

Where I also see a similar situation is where way too often you will see polished stainless, but it still looks horrible, but it is shiny. This is because proper prep work(and on stainless this is very labor intensive) is not done competently before final polishing.

Incidentally I am not a painter(I did spend a hundred to 200 hours polishing the stainless on my B after having paid some dope a lot to do it when the car was first restored), I am just reporting what I have observed over the years, much of it not good.

Roger Schaaf
300 B Calif
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Russ Vaughan 
To: Roger Schaaf 
Cc: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Paint advice


Hi Roger,

Reading your post, it seems like we have different definitions of "color sanding" . The basecoat on a 2-stage dries to a matte finish. any gloss comes from the clearcoat.
I guess if you make a big mistake and get orange peel or a run in the basecoat, you would have to sand it down, but then, unless you were extremely lucky, you would need to reapply with more base. The proper thickness of the color coat on a 2 stage is 1.0 mil or less. That's not a lot of base to sand compared to the 2.5 mil or so on a single stage. To sand the body, you need to pull the car out of the spray booth, which invites dust and dirt everywhere else. The tech manual for the paint I use recommends "clearcoat (base) as soon as possible - after proper flash off (about 10 minutes) - to minimize dirt and other substances landing on basecoat" . In my experience, the "bumps and valleys" come from the clear coat, not the base.. Clear goes on to a thickness of 2.5 mils or so and that you DO sand. Sanding a clearcoat is not considered "color sanding", at least in my circles. 

You can get quite a finish with a quality finish sander like Dynabrade or National Detroit. I have seen Mirka Abralon (2000 and 4000) bring up a spectacular finish using one of those sanders - on clear. 





Roger Schaaf <obiwan10@xxxx> wrote:
Some folks color sand their 2 stage paint. Apparently Mercedes and BMW do
not. This is probably why their paint jobs look so crummy, as do most new
car finishes, I do give Jaguar and Lexus somewhat a pass on this as they
apparently do a fairly good job without color sanding or possibly they do
some before shipping the cars to us. There are more bumps and
valleys(orange peel) then in the Rockies. Most new car finishes look like we
used to say about Platte River back in Nebraska where I am from. A mile
wide and an inch deep.

None of the manufacturers that I know of sand their paint jobs, unless there is a flaw, then only the flaw is addressed. 

If you are doing a darker color(red, black(especially black), blue, green
like the 57's) I would suggest color sanding or the finish may be shiny but
that is about all. In very strong fact I would have any excellent quality
paint job color sanded thoroughly.

I assume you are talking about single stage paint, not two stage. 

Will be the difference between a Miracle job and a job that you will do you
and your painter proud.

I purchased a kit sometime back(about 2 or 3 hundred dollars) that included
a high quality air powered dual action palm held sander and sanding disks
from 1000 to 3000 grit. I would recommend such a tool as a tremendous aid
to a nice finish.

Roger Schaaf
300 B Calif
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Russ Vaughan" 
To: ; 
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Paint advice


> Hi,
>
> Most bodymen I know use 3M D.A.R.T tape. Round foam tape 1/2" or 3/4"
diameter that covers the gaps and keeps the jambs clean and leaves no tape
line. Whatever works I guess, but I've never seen a vehicle's jambs painted
last. How would you paint the parts you can't get at like inner fenders,
under hinges, etc? Also, since at least 80% of the cars painted today are
two stage( base coat - clear coat) and you don't color sand two stage, they
would have to jamb first. I would think people just don't change their
methods when doing an occasional single stage paint job.
>
> Just another point of view
>
> Russ Vaughan
>
>
>
> dan300f@xxxx wrote:
> Hi all:
>
> Just to get my 2 cents worth in here, I paint the door jambs, etc., last.
If
> they are painted first, then when the body is sprayed, the overspray gets
on
> the fresh paint on these areas. If painted last, then the overspray gets
on
> the body which will be color sanded anyway. No use making more work for
one's
> self.
>
> Dan Reitz
> Northridge, CA
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To send a message to this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> For list server instructions, go to
http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chrysler300/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To send a message to this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> For list server instructions, go to
http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chrysler300/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]