Re: [Chrysler300] Daytona Beach in 1956.

[John <spiers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Burt, 

As a person born two years after the 1960 Daytona Speed Week event, I'm finding every tidbit of this discussion you are participating in incredibly fascinating, thanks!

I'm kind of shocked that a stock Torqueflite-equipped 300-F (the one you mentioned as driven by R.C.Wooten) could only manage 125 MPH upwind and 127 MPH downwind - but of course, that was most certainly on sand?  

I'm thinking about a stock single four-barrel 300-K coupe that I drove in high school, 2.76 rear, that I had the needle wrapped past the 120 mark (only a 120MPH speedometer, alas!)  - I think the needle OR my reading thereof may have been optimistic, but best guess, I was going just shy of 130 MPH on dry pavement on 70s-vintage Goodyear Custom Power Cushion bias ply tires. The door windows were being pulled outwards at their top edge a good 1/2" at that speed.  I regularly ran that car up to 120 MPH in the Adirondacks - but I understand a 413 New Yorker could hit 120 MPH. http://www.63chrysler.com/lit/ChryslerReview.html

Regards,

John Spiers
300-D coupe, Ram K Convertible





________________________________
From: Burton Bouwkamp <northburt@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: RLS <obiwan10@xxxxxxxxxxx>; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Mon, January 25, 2010 3:38:29 PM
Subject: [Chrysler300] Daytona Beach in 1956.

  
Roger,

My answers in red.

Burt

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RLS" <obiwan10@comcast. net>
To: <chrysler300@ yahoogroups. com>; "Burton Bouwkamp" <northburt@comcast. net>
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Daytona Beach in 1956.

> Burt:
> 
> Appears that Tim Flocks car had some special fixing's to allow it that much 
> more speed than the others.  And to have Vicky basically take the same car 
> and more or less blow off the others is highly suspicious.  I would doubt 
> that mere "blueprinting" and tuning give near the additional HP to do this.

I agree. Incidentally, Vicky drove the car a different day -  after the official Class 7 Flying Mile event..
> 
> I was wondering as you related the tale of the car not being available for 
> immediate teardown and inspection after Flock's record setting run, would 
> have given someone opportunity to do a quick engine replacement of the 
> Flock's B before the inspectors could inspect.  The 50 or 100 HP difference 
> to achieve these results over 2nd place cars would sound more than just 
> cylinder head or cam change.

Probably not enough time for an engine switch. Carl Kiekhaefer had the car at his garage for about an hour after Tim Flock's run.
I agree that 10 MPH difference is more than tuning. We (Chrysler Engineering) were not involved at Daytona in 1956. It was a dealer show. It's possible that the dealers (Brewster Shaw and Co Monroe from Miami) used the standard axle ratio 3.31 or 3.54) which would have been too high numerically for a top speed run.

> As Captain Renault was quoted in Casablanca: "I'm shocked, shocked to find 
> gambling going on in here".
> 
> I've copied in the answers to my other questions that you had sent only to 
> me.  I suspect others would find them of some interest
> 
> Forgot to answer two of your questions.
> 
> They ran with standard exhaust systems (2 1/2" diameter was used on the
> "specials" in 1960).
> 
> They used standard Bluestreak tires (special Bluestreak tires were used on
> the "specials" in 1960).
> 
> Do you have any information on rear axle ratios.  Must have been a very high 
> one like a 2:92 or 3:08 as these engines are pretty well done at 5,500 or 
> less rpm and the tires are not all that large?

I don't have - or remember - axle ratios at Daytona. You are right that the engine is "done" at 5500 RPM with mechanical tappets.
With hydraulic tappets,"pump up" happens below 5000 RPM so cars equipped with hydraulic tappets would be a slower. In 1960, R. C. Wooten (placed 7th) ran a standard engine torqueflite equipped 300F 125 MPH upwind and 127 MPH downwind. His engine speed was probably limited by hydraulic tappet "pump up".

> 
> A couple of years ago, I put a 2:92 in our B, got tired of hearing the 
> solids switch holes at 70 MPH (am running a Torqueflight also).  Had to take 
> a rear axle assembly from a 57 Imperial as could not find this ratio (I 
> looked for several years) to fit my 56 carrier.  Turns out that the 57 
> spring perches are only 1/4 inch more side to side, so 1/8 on each side. 
> Assembly dropped right in, but had to build a new driveshaft to match up 
> U-joint to pinion shaft.  Love it, car cruises beautifully at 85 now and gas 
> mileage is not bad at all,,,about 17 to 18 on the road.
> 
> Good stuff, thank you.
> 
> Roger Schaaf
> 300 B Calyfornua
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Burton Bouwkamp" <northburt@comcast. net>
> To: "RLS" <obiwan10@comcast. net>; <chrysler300@ yahoogroups. com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 8:16 PM
> Subject: [Chrysler300] Daytona Beach in 1956.
> 
> 
>> Attached are the results for the 1956 Flying Mile. There were no cars
>> between first place Tim Flock @ 139.4 MPH and second place Warren 
>> Koechling
>> @ 129.0 MPH. I can't explain Warren's and Brewster's speeds of 10 and 12 
>> MPH
>> slower than Tim Flock because that's a difference of at least 100 HP at 
>> the
>> rear wheels. I want to say that the second and third place cars were
>> standard production automatic transmission 300B's but two automotive
>> journalists road tested Brewster's 300B and reported that it had a manual
>> transmission. This remains one of Daytona's mysteries.
>>
>> Vickie Wood drove the Tim Flock car to a new ladies speed record of 136.1
>> MPH. That was on a separate day which I will call "ladies day" because I
>> can't remember how she got to drive the car.
>>
>> I imagine that Frank Hedge, Chrysler's public relations man (from Young 
>> and
>> Rubican) convinced Carl Kiekhaefer to give Vicky a chance to set a woman's
>> speed record.
>>
>> I don't think Vicky drove the 300B on the days that I was there. I was 
>> there
>> for the Class 7 Flying Mile and I stayed for the weekend races on the old
>> beach/road course. Convertibles raced on Saturday and Hardtops on Sunday.
>>
>> If you go to the Daytona Beach Public Library you can read microfiche 
>> copies
>> of the Daytona Beach Morning Journal for February speed weeks. Several 
>> years
>> ago I did it three different times to research 1955 through 1961 speed 
>> week
>> data and it was fun - it was a memory jogger and an opportunity to relive
>> those exciting days. For example, I had forgotten that Danny Eames'
>> north/south differential in 1960 was 12 MPH. All the other five cars had
>> only a 5 to 7 MPH differential. (See the second attached chart.)  Danny 
>> was
>> fourth overall but he was the fastest car downwind - nearly 150 MPH. 
>> Either
>> the wind was different during Danny's downwind run or maybe he had a 2.76
>> rear axle ratio. I did know what ratios each car had but I don't know that
>> now.
>>
>> Burt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "RLS" <obiwan10@comcast. net>
>> To: "Burton Bouwkamp" <northburt@comcast. net>; 
>> <chrysler300@ yahoogroups. com>
>> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:05 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Daytona Beach in 1956.
>>
>>
>>> Burton:
>>>
>>> Perhaps you could answer other questions that I've had for some time.
>>>
>>> I had read or heard somewhere that there were 5 different B's that had
>>> exceeded 2 way runs of 135 MPH at this event.  One of them driven by a
>>> lady. Another had a one way run of 144 MPH.  Are my memories correct on
>>> this.
>>>
>>> Also would you know the rear axle ratios that any these cars were running
>>> and were any of them considered the so called 355 HP option?  Were they
>>> running stock Blue Streak Goodyear's and running thru the stock exhaust
>>> systems.
>>>
>>> This is all interesting, especially given that these large sedans had
>>> basically the aerodynamics of a sail running against the wind.  Reminds 
>>> me
>>> of an the old Bob Segar Song.
>>> http://www.lyricsfr eak.com/b/ bob+seger/ against+the+ wind_20021964. html
>>>
>>> I recently have seen the outcome of its full total frame off restoration
>>> of the standard transmission 58 300D that ran at the Daytona Speed Weeks
>>> in 1958.  Those of you who attended the Club's national event at Lake
>>> Tahoe a few years ago will well remember this car.  At that time it was
>>> basically and old rusty looking body (but fairly solid) with the interior
>>> almost completely gone and the factory 3 speed lying in the trunk.  The
>>> car was for the most part complete but it was one of the sorriest looking
>>> things I'd ever seen.  For those of you who remember Randy Hastie's 300 F
>>> convertible (hauled to a National event for the Western Club with hay
>>> bales hanging out it) before its restoration, it was likely a tie to 
>>> which
>>> was more a sorry sight. This 300 D apparently was of very low mileage,
>>> claims of 17,000 miles stick in my mind.
>>>
>>> The car is now spectacular and likely would win Best of Show at not only
>>> 300 meets but many other top pen Concours.  It is white with the "PURE
>>> OIL" graphics posted on the side just as it was when it ran in 1958.  I
>>> also saw a wealth of photos and news articles of the car just as it was
>>> when it ran. Also photos of the car when it was being delivered in
>>> Detroit, basically in a blizzard/snowstorm just before it was driven from
>>> Detroit to Daytona. Car was purchased new by a California man who picked
>>> it up and Detroit and drove to Daytona.  Fascinating historical car.
>>>
>>> I've taken photos of it that I will figure how to upload to our website.
>>> Timo Tanskanen and another restorer from Danville, Calif. worked together
>>> to complete the restoration.  There are likely many photos of the car on
>>> our website as the car was before it was restored.  These would have been
>>> taken by many members at the Lake Tahoe Nationals.  Even in its miserable
>>> appearance then, it was likely the most popular car at that event.
>>>
>>> Car is owned my a rice farmer who lives in northern California.
>>>
>>> I'm going to forward this missive off to the Forward Look website.
>>>
>>> Thank you for sharing your memories with us.
>>>
>>> Roger Schaaf
>>> 300 B Calyfornua
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Burton Bouwkamp" <northburt@comcast. net>
>>> To: <chrysler300@ yahoogroups. com>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 4:31 AM
>>> Subject: [Chrysler300] Daytona Beach in 1956.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> RLS,
>>> Thanks for the website address.
>>>
>>> Here are my memories of being at Daytona Beach in February, 1956.
>>>
>>> Bob Rodger (Chrysler's Chief Engineer) sent me to Daytona as an 
>>> "observer"
>>> with no official duties except to help the Chrysler nameplate - with
>>> automotive writers for example - and help Chrysler drivers - like our
>>> dealer Brewster Shaw of San Juan Motors - in any way that I could.. And
>>> also to serve in a liaison roll with Carl Kiekhaefer. We knew that Carl
>>> was going to run cars in the Sunday oval race (on the beach and highway)
>>> but we did not know that he was preparing a car for the beach speed 
>>> trials
>>> to be driven by Tim Flock the NASCAR Grand National Champion.
>>>
>>> Tim Flock raised the flying mile record by 12 MPH! The car had a manual
>>> transmission and was prepared to perfection by the Kiekhaefer 
>>> organization
>>> for the beach run. Carl had the car painted with the Mercury Outboard 
>>> logo
>>> because he knew that he was going to win - and set a new record doing it.
>>> He wanted to showup the factory effort - and he did!
>>>
>>> After Tim Flock's two-way run of 139.4 MPH, Gene Carr (worked for me) and
>>> I went over to the Armory to observe the inspection. NASCAR required
>>> removal of the intake manifold and one cylinder head so that they could
>>> measure carburetor and port sizes, bore, stroke, valve sizes, piston head
>>> height and cylinder head combustion chamber volume to assure that the
>>> engine was within specifications. Without completing this inspection
>>> successfully the results were not official. We waited - and waited - and
>>> waited but Tim Flock and the car did not show. NASCAR gave us a time
>>> deadline to "produce the car at the Armory or else" so Gene and I went
>>> over to the Kiekhaefer rented facility and there was the 300B. Carl said
>>> he wasn't interested in the inspection because he said that he proved 
>>> what
>>> he wanted to prove. After some intense discussion Carl said "take the
>>> car". We did and we made the deadline at the Armory - but we did not have
>>> any mechanics to disassemble the engine. Gene and I were capable of doing
>>> it but we didn't have any tools. We borrowed tools from mechanics working
>>> next to us but it was obvious that wasn't going to work because we needed
>>> the same tools and were interfering with their work. So I called Carl
>>> Kiekhaefer and told him that we needed his help. He went through his
>>> standard dissertation that his efforts were not appreciated by Chrysler -
>>> but within ten minutes Carl came marching in through the open Armory
>>> garage door carrying a tool box in each arm and with two mechanics
>>> trotting behind him. We were the last ones out of the Armory that evening
>>> but the engine met all specifications and Chrysler had the official
>>> record - which was broken by six 300F's four years later.
>>>
>>> Burt Bouwkamp
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>>>
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>>> Chrysler300@ yahoogroups. com
>>>
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>>> Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
> 
>

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