RE: [Chrysler300] 300/other values after latest US Auctions?

[Mke Galassi <c300lover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

If we are talking of the Monterey CA Pebble Beach auctions and the no sell fresh G convert as a no sale at 121K, my feeling a letter car needs  died in the wool fans at the auction, otherwise they are not in general bringing the big bucks. At this auction a COPO Camero w/ factory race Al engine brought $1,350,000.   

--- On Fri, 8/20/10, C Bilter <cbilter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> From: C Bilter <cbilter@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] 300/other values after latest US Auctions?
> To: "'christopher beilby'" <thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx>, chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 3:11 PM
> A few quick thoughts
> 
>  
> 
> 1)       The selling price at
> auction of a letter car (or any car) will
> depend on the condition of the car, the marketplace
> conditions and the
> presence or absence of the right bidders at that point in
> time. 
> 
> 2)       I see three types of
> buyers at auction IMO that results in widely
> variable bids for a given vehicle
> 
> a.       The collector - buys more
> on emotion, more interested in the right
> car than the right price, goal is enjoyment, cherishes it
> as a family
> heirloom, may assign a name and gender to the vehicle
> 
> b.      The investor - buys with little or
> no emotion, focus is on the right
> price.  Goal is long term capital appreciation. 
> Vehicle may sit in a
> warehouse or museum and never get driven
> 
> c.       The dealer or flipper -
> buys anything they think they can make a
> quick buck on.  Example would be the red E that sold
> at Mecum Des Moines in
> July, now on ebay by a dealer out of St. Louis at an 80%
> markup in price 
> 
> 3)       Values on letter cars
> have been strong at some auctions this year
> (e.g RM Amelia Island D 'vert Sold for $203k) and weaker at
> some.  Prices
> generally seem a bit depressed for well restored examples
> evidenced at
> auction and on ebay   Letter cars went up
> when Mopar muscle (e.g. Hemi
> Cudas) went up to the stratosphere; a correction was
> probably due.  Hemi
> Cudas are still way down from four years ago; letter cars
> less so but still
> down from the Barrett-Jackson euphoria of 2006-07. 
> IMO, this is the reason
> more than the economy.
> 
> 4)       Nothing beats a great
> pair of fins.  Finnned Mopars are hot (e.g.
> '58 DeSoto Adventurer fuelie convert at Mecum Monterey no
> sale at $375k).
> Finned Imperials have gone way up in the last four years,
> starting with well
> resorted 'verts and trickling down to 4 door models. 
> Some have doubled in
> value.  H, J, K, and L's are superb automobiles that
> are still relative
> bargains.
> 
>  
> 
> Carl Bilter
> 
> 300J (a great rare letter that hasn't gone through the roof
> in price) in
> rainy Iowa
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On
> Behalf Of christopher beilby
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:21 AM
> To: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [Chrysler300] 300/other values after latest US
> Auctions?
> 
>  
> 
>   
> 
> 
> Below follows my thoughts re the recent US Car Auction
> Results - hit delete
> now if not interested, others add comment/rebuttal if they
> wish.
> 
> Only a few mixed comments on the site, after the most
> recent Monterey
> Auctions held by a few of the bigger, more known, US
> Auction Houses, such as
> Mecum, Gooding, and RM. And of most comment 'pre auctions',
> was the 1960
> 300F Daytona Flying Mile car, that Mecum had at their
> auction, it I believe
> not selling under the hammer, at around the $300k mark.
> 
> Yet at Mecum's same auction, a 1960s Riva wooden speedboat
> sold, at near
> same figure. And the Riva made near same money, as what
> many might think was
> two more desirable/powerful wooden hull boats? And so this
> made me think,
> that maybe people with that sort of money, put using the
> boat they used a a
> more daily plaything, status symbol, up there as equal to,
> or more
> desirable, that having a less useable but better/rarer more
> historic boat
> ??!
> 
> The Riva could be used near daily on Lake Tahoe, and it
> would be a real
> visible status symbol - like who else has/had one? Money
> can buy a flash new
> plastic boat, but money could not as easy buy another such
> quality Riva?!
> 
> And so this comes back to what are our 300s worth, and what
> is the future?
> And it is only if one also/then goes to RM's Monterey
> Auction results, one
> see a way clearer picture - 'probability', as to what has
> happened car
> values wise 'POST GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS'. 
> 
> '33 V12 Auburn Convert Sedan $203k, '58 Dual Ghia $159k,
> '49 Chrysler T&C
> convert $110k, '69 427 Cobra $700k, etc etc - real
> collectible cars of known
> stature over years, all selling maybe around old days
> prices. We may love
> our 300s, but I for one would not kick out that splendid
> looking V12 Auburn
> if it in my garage/collection?
> 
> A pink metallic '60 Imperial ended at $90k (color may have
> put some off?!),
> a '58 300D in special order blue metallic - and supposed
> near best of show
> resto quality - made $82.5k. That would seem reasonable -
> cheaper likely
> than replacing such a rare 300D, but not a give away price?
> On that basis a
> real near show quality 300C/D coupe should be worth $70-75k
> - is that about
> correct value?!
> 
> A Tucker - $1.1million !?? - you decide, that bit hard for
> me/now. The
> likely world's oldest surviving Ford - 1903 - made $325k -
> and when you also
> read it being ordered as a 'near totally cash ran out' Ford
> about to fold as
> monies ran out before ever starting Production, and this
> order with two
> others prevented that, plus it wholly known history, thru
> only a few owners
> since 1903, may make that seem too cheap??! 
> 
> Ferrari - multiple early one ones, of usual most sought
> models/years, but a
> standout was a magnificent known provenance, one of only
> 34, 400hp
> SuperAmericas, with stunning quality panel lines and paint
> etc - made mega
> $$$milions. Plus other rare cars made over million mark
> each - go to their
> Auction Results website, read the pages list - they have
> photos/history/prices. A truly worldclass listing - maybe
> the Daytona 300F
> would have been better here?!
> 
> And yet it is another RM Auction Ford that gives a clue to
> why the 300F
> likely ended around $300k, despite it seemingly/clearly a
> car that ticked
> many buyers buttons/boxes. Just as the Daytona 300F was a
> special build car
> to win Daytona - has likely also survived as the best of
> the best of 1960
> 300F specials?! - never mind it only such low miles for any
> 300F, unrestored
> ever and not needing it?!
> 
> The RM Ford? - In 1957, the last year Manufacturers were
> allowed to race
> (themselves), Ford built 2 Daytona Special Tbirds. One used
> a big cube
> Lincoln Motor, the other a race 312 - both had two motor
> options, the small
> one was either blown or injected. Both cars were virtually
> custom alloy
> paneled TBirds, yet race cars under that skin, and costing
> was admitted as
> much as any Ferrari Supramerica to build - at Daytona 1957
> both ran near
> never rivalled Factory speeds - the small cube car smashed
> records. It is
> the only survivor, it like the 300F, is today back in
> original Daytona Race
> condition, fully documented history - it known by the named
> "Battlebird".
> Yet it (only?!) sold for $275k. Near same price as Daytona
> 300F!! So two
> different Auction Houses, both with cream of cream
> colllector cars of
> amazing diversity/appeals, and yet both historic racers
> finish seemingly at
> a price you could not replace their history with??! To my
> knowledge, Ford
> never returned to Daytona Beach with such a car ever again
> - so it like the
> Daytona 300F, it the ultimate Factory Daytona Racer ever re
> Fords?!
> 
> So what does all what I have written here likely mean for
> 300 values, now
> and in the future? My personal views, plus how history has
> seen car values
> rise.
> 
> 1) the name, and having a 'magical elusive mystic' helps,
> egs, - Ferrari,
> sort of self explanatory (even though most grossly
> over-rated?)!, Tucker -
> beats me, but it known today way beyond numbers ever
> produced for sure, and
> re 'mystique', especially re the one that we could never
> own, as it was
> killed before birth?!
> 
> 2) high horsepower, coupled with class and prestige - adds
> a fair bit, and
> obviously also a nice classy interior is way better/nicer
> to enjoy that high
> speed driving? 
> 
> 3) sexual/sensual looks/appeal - usually vital if chasing
> mega bucks.
> 
> 4) rarity and known history/restoration quality.
> 
> So if 300 values are holding up OK 'post GFC' - as long as
> one does not want
> a rushed sale where there might only be 'bargain taker
> likely resellers' ? -
> then the ones with the most glamour - fins, chrome,
> flash/classy knockout
> interiors and hemis, and 'cross ram multiple everythings' -
> are likely to be
> the ones to move more upwards when and if things ever
> recover?!
> 
> And lastely to those rarest of rare special
> performance/history 300s - who
> knows?! It has only taken the Ferrari Superamericas, the
> few Daytona Cobras,
> the '30s supercharged 8 cylinder Alfas, etc - only a few
> years to go from
> hundreds of $$$thousands, to now nearing regularly low
> millions to nearing
> ten $$$$millions.
> 
> But my feeling is would that ever happen to a GM, Ford,
> Chrysler production
> based car?! - the open Custom bodied top of the line
> Cadillac, Imperial,
> Packard, Duesenbergs of the 30s may be the ones that go
> nearest to going
> into 7 figure sums first. But in the next weeks, maybe that
> Daytona 300F may
> enter that 7 figure sales figure league?
> 
> And to that 1903 Ford - if it was not Ford who bought it,
> my guess if it
> comes on the market, just it's history re how it saved
> Henry Ford such that
> he ever delivered his first Ford, without anything else re
> the amazing car,
> should spell nothing below any 7 figure sum is ever likely
> again?!
> 
> Christopher Beilby, in a cold wet showerey southern
> Australia
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
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