RE: [Chrysler300] 300F @ $200K-Reserve not met

[christopher beilby <thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Andy and John (below) are 100% correct I believe.
 
And further, it is my understanding, the the Factory involvement in running at Daytona Beach ended in 1957, from first a proclaimed coming Rule change early 1957, to being in full effect around May 1957.
 
Some time around/before 1956, major Daytona sponsors PURE OIL, introducing a new major Daytona Class, for non factory entrants - that was the Class my supercharged 300C was special built to run in, and that was the Class that later NHRA President Wally Parkes ran his injected hemi Plymouth 'special' in, granted a second go/runs at the end of '57 event, when the Beach/sand had finally cleared to hard packed as it was supposed to be, usually in other years was.
It is my guess after 1957, this 'non Factory'Class became the main/remainmg Daytona Flying Mile Class until the Beach ended in I think 1959, with the opening of Bill France's new banked super track/bowl.
 
Much non recorded factory work/specials prexisted and continued after the 1957 NASCAR ban, such that Ford and Chrysler finally got back into Factory involvment in the early 60s to counter what many may say was widespread GM rule evasion/bending practices that started right from the '57 ban..
 
Others may wish to comment if they see any of this different to what I say here?
 
Re the record 300F, the maybe best known other Daytona/Bonneville 'major Brand factory special', was a '57 Ford Thunderbird, it one of only 2 built. After 1957, it was modified further, it very well known/ documented history - it ran speeds from memory around/over 150 mph on multiple occassions, at different famous record venues. It sold last year for a figure near that of the 300F. Seems funny to me that thses two most iconic cars are not sought/valued more, especially the TBird, as just normal F Code supercharged '57 Tbirds bring near as much, and this car is a real one off, sort of like Clark Gable's supercharged Duesenberg is. 7 figure sums for underpowered early 50s Ferrari road cars etc just seem so crazy versus these real cars??!!
 
Christopher Australia - rain showers the last days, 300s under cover again - we here have only had about 4 weeks normal sunny weather in near last 8 months!!! And winter, coming when it is supposed to be wet!!
 
 
 

 To: r41hp@xxxxxxxxx; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: john@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:19:51 -0700
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 300F @ $200K-Reserve not met


  



All,

The record setting Chrysler ?300F Special GT? or ?Special Gran Turismo? currently for sale has been documented since its runs on the beach. This car was purchased by Gregg Ziegler who took delivery at the factory. Mr. Ziegler drove the car from his home in Illinois to Daytona and made the record setting runs in this fully documented car as its entire history has been known and documented by the Chrysler 300 Club Intl., Inc. 

In 1961 Ziegler wanted to go to Daytona again and sold the record setting F to Robert McAtee and purchased a 300G for another attempt. Mr. McAtee had tried to purchase one of these cars new from the factory and was rejected, thus he went after the Ziegler car. There is documentation to support this. Mrs. McAtee sold the car to its third and current owner a few years back.

The swivel seat issue is not an issue at all as this was ?standard equipment? for all 300F?s produced. All of the Special GT?s started life as standard production 300F?s and were pulled from the line and taken to Header House in the Detroit area where modifications were made to create their Special GT status.

Burt Bouwkamp who is a current member of the Chrysler 300 Club Intl., Inc and ?the? retired Chrysler engineer who headed the program at Daytona for these cars and Wayne Graefen, not a club member, but an owner of one of the four original documented Special GT since 1992 would arguably be the two world authorities on these cars. Mr. Bouwkamp can be contacted through the club. Should you wish to contact Mr. Graefen e-mail me privately and I?ll supply contact info.

Secretly factory owned, but privately entered Special GT?s as was a common practice from other factories as well. After Daytona ALL were sold and this is how Andy Granatelli got his example for the Bonneville runs. It is my understanding that there were more than six cars entered at the event. One would have been the mule which was disqualified and one standard 375hp automatic. It is quite possibly that there were more 300F 375hp Torqueflite cars that were entered.

The convertible which recently sold and the Graefen car were not at Daytona, but special order cars for customers that had ?clout? with Chrysler. The other two existing Daytona run cars are the Ziegler record car and a white coupe owned by Don Petty, cousin of Richard Petty.

John Lazenby

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Andy Mikonis 
To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] 300F @ $200K-Reserve not met

This isn't something that just came out of the woodwork. This car's whereabouts have been known since day one. The seller is third owner.

Direct factory sponsorship was prohibited by NASCAR rules. The cars had to be entered by private owners. Also, the car had to be available for public purchase, theoretically speaking.

If you can find yourself a December 2010 issue of Collectible Automobile magazine, I wrote a six-page article about this car.

Best Regards,
Andy Mikonis

--- On Tue, 3/22/11, Bob Jasinski <rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Bob Jasinski <rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] 300F @ $200K-Reserve not met
To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 12:23 PM

John,

Did you study all the photo's in the eBay listing? This car is the real deal, this is the car Ziegler drove to win the Flying Mile, there is a signed letter from Ziegler himself posted stating that fact, what better proof is there?

Bob J

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of retromobilia@xxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:54 AM

To: The Richardson Family

Cc: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 300F @ $200K-Reserve not met

Dan, 

Does it seem logical to you that the engineers would have selected for, the world speed beach record, a car "off the line" which had swivel seats. Or if they did all the race prep that they would have left that optional weight in the car. I would suggest that this was a / the car 'of his choice' "off the line" awarded to the driver after the event. Not the actual car which he drove. As legally slanted as, The Big Three, were at the time regarding special built cars like prototypes, specials and racers, being allowed in the public; I really doubt that the actual cars were allowed to exist. 

It would be great to think it. But I doubt we can enjoy more than the record itself.... 

Your, any, comments or corrections would be appreciated. 

Regards, 

John 

J D Jung 

Retromobilia.net 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "The Richardson Family" <therichardsonfamily@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:therichardsonfamily%40comcast.net> > 

To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> , "Rich Barber" <c300@xxxxxxx <mailto:c300%40ez2.net> > 

Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 7:09:17 PM 

Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 300F @ $200K-Reserve not met 

Hello group: 

If anyone out there has a spare quarter million plus, is looking for a special letter car, and needs someone close by to take a look and test drive - I am officially offering my services, free of charge! I am only about 20 miles from the town this car is in, and I would love to have an excuse to see it. I can't think of a more rare / desirable post-war American automobile than this one, as long as all of the claims are true. Anyway, that sure would be a great experience to have on my "bucket-list". 

Dan Richardson 

300L Family Heirloom 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Rich Barber 

To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> 

Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 1:07 PM 

Subject: [Chrysler300] 300F @ $200K-Reserve not met 

http://tinyurl.com/4zquf4b The Greg Ziegler car is being auctioned 

at e-Bay. Auction # 260753235698 

Not mine and no linkage to me. 

C-300'ly, 

Rich Barber 

The story: 

NASCAR'S All Time " Flying Mile " Record Holder 144.927 MPH {class 7} 

One of six 1960 300 F Specials built by Chrysler to compete at Daytona in 

the the Flying Mile, 

on the beach and in the sand. 

Six 300 F's were taken off the assembly line. A special team of Chryslers 

top Engineers were assembled. 

In a secret and separate location they were reworked to compete in the 

Flying Mile. 

They started with the engine. Installing solid lifters, special piston 

rings, high-lift camshaft and factory headers. 

Very special short ram manifolds were cast. A Pont-A-Mousson 4 speed gear 

box was installed. 

The rear axle ratio was changed to 2.93 for top end performance 

The cars were drastically underrated at 400 HP. {probably 475 hp} 

Time to go racing...Good job those Chrysler Engineers did ! 

All six Specials show up on the beach that day. Bill France NASCAR founder 

is the flag man that day. 

They place one through six. One of the most comprehensive victories by a 

single marque in the history 

of recorded motor-sports. 

This car was the winner with Daytona Super Star Greg Ziegler behind the 

wheel. 

AND its a original 11,000 mile unrestored car. With the original spare in 

the trunk. Seen a hand full of times since Gregg brought it back from 

Daytona in 1960. Its has the original paint and is probably one 

of the most historic survivor-race cars in the world. This car is completely 

serviced and runs 

as good as it looks. Looks like a 3 year old car. 

It sits on the original Good Year Blue Streek racing tires that it won with 

on the beach ! ! ! 

in 1960, Gregg's original NASCAR approved seat belts and a huge archive of 

documentation. 

One of the biggest Chrysler collectible cars in the world !!! 

A fabulous addition to any museum or collection. Joliet IL area 

Any Questions call Larry...815 671 8741 

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