Re: [Chrysler300] Compression pressure , 300H

[Richard Osborne <reomotorsports1@xxxxxx>]

Hi Mike, 

Sounds like you may have a similar mistake to one I made when I rebuilt the engine in my G. That is taking it to a race engine builder. In my case, I took my 413 to one of the nations best blown alcohol hemi builders. I made the wrong assumption that if they could build a 4000hp engine, a 300 or 400hp engine should be no problem.

Wrong.

The hemi gets torn down after almost every run (alcohol, not as bad as nitro). In my case, this was one engine I NEVER wanted to touch again. Didn't work out that way.

My experience is that cam timing is VERY critical on the ram engines, not sure about dual inlines with solid lifters, but I would check it out. Someone needs to correct me if my numbers are wrong, but the ram cars had unique timing gears. The can gear was cast with a 3 degree retard if I remember correctly.

Getting this wrong will affect the performance far more negatively than reduced compression.

Good luck

Richard
Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 9, 2012, at 8:01 AM, Michael Moore <mmoore8425@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> Marshall,
> I have been gradually getting my 300H, which I have owned since 1964, back into a more drivable  condition. Some of the major problems which kept me from driving it much (brakes, steering) are resolved, but the engine issues, while better, are still with me.   In general, it has suffered from a lack of power dating back to the engine rebuild I had done many years ago. The rebuilder, a highly respected race engine builder, misunderstood California (where I was moving to)  requirements. He also knew high test was going away. Among the mods he made was to lower the compression with a custom Barnes cam, rejet the carbs with richer needles and install a smog valve. The car had power, but ran so rich your eyes burned. The carbs were rebuilt and rejetted to stock needles and it began to run better. I know it still does not run as strongly though as it did even in the 90's. 
> 
> I obtained a correct 300H camshaft from a member and have a new set of lifters. My plan is to replace the camshaft with the stock 300H camshaft. 
> Recently though, I have been wondering if the rebuilder may have installed lower compression pistons. If so, now would be the time to replace the pistons also.
> I also don't fully appreciate how the custom camshaft lowered the compression ratio other than he adjusted the overlap.    
> Thanks,
> Mike Moore 
> Morgan Hill, California 
> 300H
> On Nov 9, 2012, at 3:44 AM, mgoodknight@xxxxxxxx wrote:
> 
> Thanks for your research Rich,
> 
> That's a good write-up on compression testing.  One might conclude from that reading that too much emphasis is often put on the results of compression testing and that proper (valid) compression testing is not often accomplished.
> 
> Much can be learned about the condition of an engine from studying the results of a valid test, but inaccurate diagnostics are more commonly the main outcome.
> 
> My recommendation is to avoid such a test unless you have strong evidence of a problem that can be easily identified by a test.  If the engine runs well and performs properly, don't do the testing.  You might see results that will cause you undue worries.
> 
> Marshall Goodknight, engine failure analyst
> 
> 
> Please note: message attached
> 
> From: "Rich Barber" <c300@xxxxxxx>
> To: "'Michael Moore'" <mmoore8425@xxxxxxx>, "'300'" <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Compression pressure , 300H
> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 22:47:28 -0800
> 
> 
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> From: "Rich Barber" <c300@xxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Compression pressure , 300H
> Date: November 8, 2012 10:47:28 PM PST
> To: "'Michael Moore'" <mmoore8425@xxxxxxx>, "'300'" <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> 
> 
> Individual compression pressures on a long non-operated, 85,000 mile, cold,
> ram K block ranged from 100 psi to 140 psi. I found this interesting text
> on analyzing compression pressures. According to the 75% criterion, the
> engine failed, although a properly operated and warmed up engine with
> properly adjusted solid tappets would have probably tightened the range and
> marginally passed.
> 
> C300K'ly,
> Rich Barber
> 
> COMPRESSION TESTING 
> 
> Note: although this is written primarily for 4cycle gas engine testing,
> 2cycle gas and diesel follow pretty much the same sequence of procedures.
> Also, many diesel engine companies do not publish specific compression
> readings so the values, in the chart, at the end of this section will be too
> low for use with a diesel, you'll have to do the calculation.
> 
> 1. Be sure the crankcase is at the proper level and the battery is properly
> charged. Operate the engine for a minimum of 30 minutes at 1200 rpm, make
> sure that the choke has opened, and the engine is at normal operating
> temperature. Putting a load on the engine for at least 10 minutes, can
> increase the accuracy of your test. Turn the ignition switch off; then
> remove all the spark plugs (injectors on the diesel). If the engine has
> closed cooling, (green anti-freeze) relieve pressure in the cooling system.
> (carefully)
> 
> 2. Set the throttle plates and choke plate in the wide open position. On 4
> cycle gas engines: Try not to pump raw fuel into the intake with the
> accelerator pump.
> 
> 3. Install compression gauge in No. 1 cylinder.
> 
> 4. Install an auxiliary starter switch in the starting circuit. Ground the
> coil wire on gas engines. Next, using the auxiliary starter switch, crank
> the engine (with the ignition switch off) at least five compression strokes
> and record the highest reading.
> 
> Count the approximate number of compression strokes required to obtain the
> highest reading.
> 
> 5. Repeat the test on each cylinder as was required to obtain the highest
> reading on the No. 1 cylinder.
> 
> If the readings degrade from front to rear, re-check the battery and
> possibly re-run the test starting at cylinder #1. In this way you can have a
> set of two tests to compare an average. 
> 
> TEST CONCLUSION
> 
> 2 Cycle Engines: 
> Your test results need to be within 15 psi range to be considered an engine
> worth using. For example; a 3 cylinder with readings of 130, 135, and 120
> would be considered a good engine. Some might argue that there should be no
> more than 5psi difference between high and low cylinders. But, obviously,
> the closer the readings are to each other, the better.
> 
> 4 Cycle Engines:
> The indicated compression pressures are considered normal if the lowest
> reading cylinder is within 75% of the highest. Refer to the following
> example and chart.
> 
> Seventy-five percent of 140, the highest cylinder reading is 105. Therefore,
> cylinder No. 7 being less than 75% of cylinder No. 3 indicates an improperly
> seated valve or worn or broken piston rings.
> 
> If one, or more, cylinders read low, squirt approximately one (1) tablespoon
> of engine oil on top of the pistons in the low reading cylinders. Repeat
> compression pressure check on these cylinders.
> 
> 1. If compression improves considerably, the piston rings are at fault.
> 
> 2. If compression does not improve, valves are sticking or seating poorly.
> 
> 3. If two adjacent cylinders indicate low compression pressures and
> squirting oil on the pistons does not increase the compression, the cause
> may be a cylinder head gasket leak between the cylinders. Engine oil and/or
> coolant in the cylinders could result from this problem.
> 
> Note: An engine compression test is easy to do but, your results need to be
> tempered with the knowledge of testing conditions that reduce the accuracy
> of your test. As the battery gets weaker, starter gets hotter, and the
> engine cools down, your results from any one cylinder will change. It is
> important to do the test a quickly as possible, with as little cranking as
> needed to complete the test.
> Circumstances arise where a more accurate leak down test should be utilized
> before you start tearing the engine down. Readings that are at the extremes
> of the chart, (meaning over-all very high or very low readings), may
> indicate conditions inside the cylinders that a compression test won't
> depict properly.
> You can do the math yourself but, the following quick reference chart should
> be used when checking cylinder compression pressures. ( to avoid
> mathematical errors) The chart (below) has been calculated so that the
> lowest reading number is 75% of the highest reading. 
> Special note: Although the "actual" compression readings are not all that
> important, keep in mind that very few engines will run with a compression
> under 100 psi. However, there are some engines that will test with readings
> in the 90 psi range on a regular basis. If you're not sure if you have one
> of these engines, contact your servicing dealer before you get excited. 
> 
> Although 75% range is tolerable for an older motor, keep in mind that most
> modern engines are designed at much closer tolerances. Also, on a V8 engine,
> if 7 cylinders test at 150psi and only one tests at 113psi, this is not a
> good sign...
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Michael Moore
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 11:13 AM
> To: 300
> Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Compression pressure , 300H
> 
> Sorry, that would be engine compression.
> 
> Mike Moore
> 
> On Nov 8, 2012, at 11:00 AM, Michael Moore wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have available the pressure I should read for a stock 300H when
> cranking (with all plugs out) ? 
> 
> Thanks, Mike Moore 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
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