Re: [Chrysler300] METERING RODS CUSTOM --- Chuck Blackhawk

[George McKovich <george@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Chuck made mine about 6 years ago and they were great. I don't understand his timidity now.

George


On Nov 15, 2012, at 6:20 PM, Ray Melton <rfmelton@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hello All –
> 
> I did indeed talk to Chuck Riblett at Blackhawk Engineering in Loveland, Colorado a couple of months ago. He was a fountain of knowledge and very cooperative. He is especially knowledgeable and experienced with Corvair carburetors, and freely admitted that he had very little experience with the WCFB’s, but was willing to try. On the other hand, he said that he was not at all comfortable with machining new metering rods to the specifications I provided him –saying the small (wide open) end was just too thin for him to work with. He said that if I could provide the dimensions of the jet that the metering rod fits into and the detailed engineering drawings of the old metering rod (showing overall length, distance from one step to another, upper end connecting configuration, etc., then he could reverse engineer a pair of jet/needle configurations that start out with a larger diameter needle and a correspondingly larger jet to obtain the same incremental flow characteristics as the original set. I told him I had no realistic way to provide that kind of information, and although I understand that Jon at the Carburetor Shop does indeed have those original engineering drawings, I would not be comfortable asking him to send his hard-won specialized information to a competing shop. Since it didn’t look like it was going to happen with Chuck, I didn’t ask him to speculate on the price of a job he probably was not going to do. 
> 
> Note: Chuck explained the difficulty in maintaining tolerances with such a thin piece of brass – just the force of the cutting tool against the billet on one side pushes and distorts the rod, killing the tolerances as it springs back on the next half-revolution. Jon Hardgrove told me that the special Carter lathes he has apply small cutters on four opposing sides of the brass billet simultaneously, eliminating the deflection imposed by a single cutter and enabling the >60-year-old machines to hold such amazing tolerances. He also added that since each rod had to be individually set up and produced on his totally manual machine, there were no economies of scale to be obtained with a larger production run, especially when I estimated that there were probably fewer than a couple dozen of us who would ever be a potential customer.
> 
> If someone else wants to try again with Chuck Riblett and can provide the detailed information he needs to reverse-engineer a whole new, never-been-tried solution, with Chuck’s own confidence that he can maintain the desired tolerances (and I can tell that he is a perfectionist), then GO FOR IT! I know a lot of us would like to share in that. My carbs (and rebuild kits + 0.057” secondary jets) are already on their way to Jim McGowan for restoration, but the rods from the Carburetor Shop won’t be fabricated for another two weeks, so if we could get a firm resolution before then, I would LOVE to save the >$200 difference, but it would need to be soon! 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ray Melton
> 
> From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gary Nelson
> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 5:08 PM
> To: Ray Melton; 'Larry Jabin'
> Cc: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [Chrysler300] METERING RODS CUSTOM --- Chuck Blackhawk
> 
> Some one needs to call Chuck Blackhawk (1 970 461-1328). A couple of years ago he quoted me $25 per rod. Further stated, 10 or more rods would get dealer discount!!
> 
> Let us all know the results. I would order a set (2 carbs).
> 
> Thank you,
> Gary, the parts doc
> Escondido, CA USA
> Land of the Avocado
> Mail: garythepartsdoc@xxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:garythepartsdoc%40glnelson.com> 
> 760.751.1958
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf Of Ray Melton
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 4:25 PM
> To: 'Larry Jabin'; 'George McKovich'
> Cc: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> 
> Subject: [Chrysler300] Modifying 1957 WCFB carburetors
> 
> Regarding the modifications outlined in the Factory Service Bulletins, you will also note that in addition to drilling some new holes and enlarging some passages, they specify changing to new metering rods in both carburetors and different secondary jets in the front carburetor, none of which are available any more. However, since I am planning on having those modifications made to the WCFB’s on my 300C, I have searched for quite a while and finally found a source for the elusive parts. John Hardgrove at The Carburetor Shop in Eldon, MO (573-392-7378) will make the new rods for you on the original machines purchased from Carter when they went out of business in the ‘70’s. These unique, totally manual machines from the 1940’s can hold precision tolerances down to 0.00005” (five hundred-thousandths of an inch – about one hundredth the diameter of a typical human hair!) However, that kind of precision machining does not come cheaply: the rods cost $320/set of four and you must also purchase their WCFB rebuild kit @ $154 for two carburetors. The new secondary jets are a paltry $15/pair. So, I’m looking at $489 + $14 shipping just for the parts for the rebuild, PLUS the labor for the restoration itself! This is likely to be a ~$1100 job!
> 
> The best part about having these new metering rods custom-made is that John has all the original Carter part numbers and specs as well as the Carter-original tiny brass billets, so he can also make the new metering rods in the standard configuration as well as three more stages of “lean” to adjust for high-altitude operation. John Chesnutt wrote on December 15, 2008 listing the Carter P/N’s for these different metering rods. I can forward that message to any interested member if you are unable to locate it yourself.
> 
> Ray Melton
> 
> Las Cruces, NM
> 
> 1957 Chrysler 300C convertible 
> 
> White/Gauguin S/N 3N572517
> 
> From: Larry Jabin [mailto:larry@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:larry%40pwbsfo.com> ] 
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 2:34 PM
> To: Ray Melton
> Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Carbs ?s for 1958 Chrysler 300D
> 
> Thanks Ray 
> 
> Larry Jabin
> 
> P.W. Bellingall, Inc.
> 
> 500 Sansome Street
> 
> Suite 501
> 
> San Francisco CA 94111
> 
> Tel: 415-781-8640
> 
> Fax: 415-781-0155
> 
> Larry@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Larry%40pwbsfo.com> 
> 
> From: Ray Melton [mailto:rfmelton@xxxxxxx <mailto:rfmelton%40msn.com> ] 
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 1:08 PM
> To: 'George McKovich'; Larry Jabin
> Cc: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> 
> Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Carbs ?s for 1958 Chrysler 300D
> 
> There was an additional Chrysler Service Bulletin No. 1034-CH issued October 16, 1957 to correct a misprint in Service Bulletin No. 1028-CH (August 30, 1957). That misprint affected the dimensions of the modification to the carburetors; to wit:
> 
> Quote: “Please note on Page 2 of Service Bulletin No. 1028-CH in Figure 1, under the drawing of the “Air Horn” the Primary side should be 11/16 inch and the Secondary side should be 13/16.” (The drawing in #1028 had these dimensions reversed)
> 
> Ray Melton
> 
> From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of George McKovich
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 10:59 AM
> To: Larry Jabin
> Cc: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> 
> Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Carbs ?s for 1958 Chrysler 300D
> 
> Larry
> There was a fix issued in July 57 but I thought the 58's would have had that already done. I can send you a copy of it this evening.
> 
> George
> 
> On Nov 5, 2012, at 9:10 AM, Larry Jabin <larry@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:larry%40pwbsfo.com> <mailto:larry%40pwbsfo.com> > wrote:
> 
> > 
> > When taking off from a stop light at an intersection where I have to make a left turn
> > 
> > If I take off quickly the car stumbles so I guess the fuel is moving in the bowl to the right side of the carb
> > 
> > I thought I read somewhere on the list server for a fix for this, but can't seem to find it
> > 
> > Has anybody else experienced this & know of a fix?
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > Larry Jabin
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
> 
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> 


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