RE: [Chrysler300] New American Classic Tires

["Terry & Andree Hoeman" <tehoema@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

An idea just occurred to me that wheel problems due to radials could be as simple as the fact that they operate at much higher pressures.   Typically 35 or higher vrs the 24 which I think of for original tires.  That would put a lot of additional stress on the rim of course.

We had purchased a pair of extra wheels to use for the snow tires on our 72 wagon many years ago and they were not as wide as the normal rims were but we didn't realize that and they became mixed with the other rims as time went on and both rims had the outer edge start tearing off---luckily no accidents occurred except that one the first one we were on a road trip and the inner wall started tearing and got far enough out to rub on the tie rod producing a strange oscillation .  Took a while to figure out and then put spare on and got real scared when I saw the torn metal ready to blow.   Amazingly the tire had not lost air yet.  Must have been 3 inch wide tear.

Basically the tires used were too big for the rim being used and put too much stress on it and we were lucky to not be killed in an accident!!   Higher pressure would seem to be the same problem to me.



-----Original Message-----
From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Grady
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 11:28 AM
To: 'Greg Leggatt'; 'Tony Rinaldi'
Cc: 'Edward Mills Antique Tractors'; 'Chrysler 300 Club'
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] New American Classic Tires

Just an observation, by an engineer, and supporting what  someone else pointed out, the twisting moment the wheel puts on the hub (engineering sense) does not change from bias to radials as far as I can understand; and we are not racing, or necessarily using more grip radials might have over and over, say  in an aggressive racing  corner, resulting in more wheel loading .

 

The only realistic way wheels can “crack” is fatigue, caused by bringing the metal (locally) over a certain stress for a certain number of cycles, certainly many millions,  as load reverses at each turn of wheel , when going around a corner,---- =stress on attachments of disc to rim, especially if welded , or I would expect, disc cracks near bolts . 

 

Welds can leave small sharp gaps at edges, leading to stress risers, and also leave a stressed zone unless heat treated (stress relieved) after welding. So it may be cracks are just due to 300k miles, nothing to do with tires, except most wheels have radials on them now , so it looks that way....as if radials ‘did it”  But observed cracks and real cause are not the tires? Cars run at speed on curvy roads (West Virginia? Pa hills?) would then be expected to crack much sooner than say wheels in Texas flat country.

 

To counter that means use a thicker material, in general, thus reducing peak stress in the metal , and stress relieving fabricated steel wheels. Do we know thickness of Stockton wheel centers, vs. stock? Relates to 300B running Imperial wheels, too,  in Nascar , which I think had 5” pattern . And mid sixties 15” “police wheels”. 

 

Really good info on keeping 14” hubcaps, Tony. They weld a ring inside 15” rim?  

 

I think I fixed up G hubcaps for 15” shod F to fix that one time long ago. Related to bigger disc brakes. 

 

Recently have been running 16” and 17 “ by 8” JEEP GC style rims, with Michelin Latitude  tires on 5 x 4.5 “ cragar black wheels with trim rings , about same OD as old 15” but much better handling setup. But does not look stock. JEEP wheels do not fit our cars.

 

I am afraid of anything except Michelins. Just me ; Have had sidewall blowouts, (Firestone) , unseen tread separation, (= severe balance / out of round issues, Cooper) , and 10k mile tire life (Goodyear Eagles) .. Michelin go 50-60 k no problems,  usually need no weights at all.

 

I have also had a lot of trouble with aluminum wheel after market lug conical nuts with those washer like fittings coming loose ; you really have to torque perfectly and check every few thousand. That almost got me on long trip, two fell off the wheel ; then, suddenly as in 1000 feet wheel started wobbling violently, third one came loose in seconds, last two also loose . Progression is far more rapid than you might think. And you must jack up to re center wheel. 

 

Best,

 

 

 

John Grady

 

 

 

 

 

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Greg Leggatt
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 11:26 AM
To: Tony Rinaldi
Cc: Edward Mills Antique Tractors; Chrysler 300 Club
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] New American Classic Tires

 






Hi Tony,

Thanks for your work on this topic. My only experience with hub piloted wheels was with one ton pickups in the early 80's. It seemed an essential tool for demounting a wheel was a sledge hammer!!

Greg

Sent from my iPad


On Jan 6, 2014, at 10:48 AM, Tony Rinaldi <awrdoc@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

  

Regarding the lug centric recommendation:

 

It actually references the way the wheels are balanced. The more important caution is that older rims may crack if used with radial tires. We have had members tell of an old wheel cracking with radial tires and thankfully, lived to talk about it.

 

"American Classic Tires

(Tire Types)

 

Lug centric balancing is preferred over hub centric, because it’s more accurate to real-world driving.

Weights should be mounted on the inside of the tire in order to protect the soft whitewall. Because of the whitewall insert, American Classic radial tires may take 3 to 5 ounces to balance. Old wheels can often be out-of-round, which will cause problems when it comes time to balance the new tires. Carefully check your old rims before mounting.

 

Also be aware that older rims designed for bias ply tires may crack if used with modern radials, as the radial places more street on the wheel."

 

“Been there, done that”!

 

There is no debating the multitude of 300 owners who still use their original wheels and are content.

 

I only tried to provide a new tire option (bias ply look radials) for some owners and what is considered state-of-the-art recommendations and what is currently available.

 

I would like to share my experience when converting my 300-F to front disc brakes with bias ply tires. An old time mechanic, who worked on 300s at a Chrysler dealer in the day, told me that the original wheels were “hub centric” and the diameter of the new disc spindles were smaller than the center hole of my old wheels. He had rings manufactured that were wedged onto the spindles so that the wheel would be supported on the hub.

 

Subsequently, I worked with the now deceased Frank Mauro, owner of Stockton Wheel, to develop modern “lug centric supported” 14’ wheels for 1957 & up 300s and other Mopars to support radial tires. He also made up 15” wheels that could use 14” hubcaps based upon Dan Reitz’s original concept.

 

FYI, Stockton Wheel is open again and is still manufacturing these wheels. The same wheel wright works there. We currently have tire options that we did not have in the 1990s. Many members were using under sized tires because the 75 series tires were not available. Many of our cars looked like “Low Riders.”

 

At that time, we pre ordered 100 sets of tires so that Coker would manufacture the 235/75R14” WWW. They are no longer made since American Classic Tire brought their new 75 series of tires out.

 

300’ly

Tony Rinaldi

 

 

From: Edward Mills Antique Tractors <millserAT@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, Jan 5, 14 at Sun, Jan 5 - 9:11 PM
To: Anthony Rinaldi <awrdoc@xxxxxxxxx>, Chrysler 300 Club <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] New American Classic Tires

 

Tony - where did you get recommendation on Lug Centric? I can't find any Wheel Info on American Classics Tire website?

On 1/4/2014 3:02 PM, Tony Rinaldi wrote:

  


Hi To All Happy New Year,

Just opened the latest Hemmings MN Coker is advertising a new series of American Classic radial WWW tires that have bias ply look profiles. The American Classic Tire website does not show them as of yet. 

They seem to be geared for Cadillacs, thunderbirds Corvettes. 

Based on carnut.com "as built" specs for '55-'65 300s, C-300, 300-B 300-G owners may benefit from the 800:R15 tires if a 3 1/4" WWW works for you. 

As with American Classic 235/75R14 235/75R15 radial tires, the white wall is an integral part of the tire. The 14" 75 series tires are for 1955-1960 unless owners opt for 15" wheels and tires. 

Diamond Classic has S rated new Michelin 235/75R15 tires that they will put what ever size WW you want. They also promise the 235/75R14" tires soon by their own production. 

BTW, I have the 15" Michelin tires from Diamond Back mounted on Stockton 15" wheels with the original 300-F hubcaps. They are great and exceed all expectations. One tire did develop "bead bubbling" of the white wall where it sealed to the rim. I had to pay shipping one way for a replacement WW. They did give me some grief since it they were over 1 year old. 

American Classic Tires recommends "lug centric" wheels rather than the original "hub centric" wheels that may flex with radials. 

Stockton Wheel will make up 14" modern "lug centric" replacement wheels or 15" that will accept 14" hub caps for radial tires. They are for 1957-60 and 1962-65. Their 15" wheels do not match 1961 300-G perforated wheels. They will not fit 1955-56. 

Some narrow white walls are currently still available for 300-H and up. 

All of this comes at a price! Hope Santa was good to you. 

300,ly,
Tony Rinaldi
300-F Conv't <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS> 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

 










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