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Mike, Probably he was trying to keep manifold cool for higher performance...Edelbrock
“Air Gap” manifolds, one of best designs today do that on A block by keeping port
runners separate , and air spaced, from the cast metal covering over center
valley, (underside of manifold) which gets hit by hot oil, and gets hot ; B
blocks have the sheet metal cover, so are sort of air gap already. But a pad helps
even more, blocking heat rise from pan to underside of manifold. ---and pulling
riser valve or tying it down in open position is a part of that; pulling it out
altogether gets flapper out of way of exhaust flow too. I have done same thing
, most recently on a slant six—no crossover,.but sort of U shape hot box under
carb. ; working over heat valve is easier than pulling V8 intake, ----
blocking exhaust crossover passages, at head / manifold joint is another way.
Pulling it out is easy , especially if into putting new exhaust head pipe on anyway
. Tap shaft holes for screws to fill holes.....look and see! I have done same thing !! But I did not have an insulating pad. Even smarter thing. Even
while the heat riser valve is open some exhaust goes across heating up carb, and
manifold, not good as it decreases density of air, less goes in per power
stroke . But the factory design gives a nice quick warmup ,and less emissions....but
remains a little hot , especially when valve rusts and sticks, and most do . Pad might be factory too, for same reasons. I think I have seen
that too, silver on at least one side and fiberglass in middle? The prior owner of your H was a real hot rodder, that is all,--and
a smart one. As an aside, many pilots had 300’s , two of my F’s came from United
pilots, who, it turned out , knew each other. May still be in club, but long
ago retired. John From: Michael Moore
[mailto:mmoore8425@xxxxxxx] My 300H had a very thick insulation pad made from some sort
of fiberglass, or asbestos wool in an heavy aluminum foil envelope under the
intake manifold and extending outthe back. It seemed to me to be factory made,
but can't be sure. I've always wondered what had happened to cause the manifold
heat valve to be removed, the choke to be converted to manual, and I had
assumed that pad was all part of it. When I got the car, my neighbor, who was an older
mechanic and who was knowledgeable, commented that I should just use the choke
to get it started and get it off choke as soon. Big engones, he said, don't
need much choke once running (?). My drivers side seat was raised up wooden blocks under each
corner. The original owners was a Navy fighter pilot (F4H) who was killed in
1966, and I got it from his family. Mike Moore On Jan 30, 2014, at 9:23 AM, John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Hi Chris, My entire discussion is/was about ram cars, I know nothing
personally of H type quads, although operation strategy is identical to C and D
, or any inline dual quad. ; Maybe this is kind of funny in retrospect , the miscommunication
, I was hearing right or left , not front or back. Sorry; Forgot we
are in solidly H territory, not F , where I live most of the time.
While I am not 100 % sure now that you ask, and I should know
definitively, but memory fails, I think the F had heat riser valves in the
exhaust manifold that controlled flow in the (two!—in and out) ) heat elbows,
one on each side. If not, I stand corrected, but IF not, that is an
awful setup. Needs for carb heat are far different cold than hot for same
reasons as crossover type heat valve . That would only add to warm up miseries
to have uncontrolled heat. I have seen the floor of ram manifolds burned out
with a hole into plenum from exhaust , in fact I fixed two pairs of them with
that issue back in the day, which seems to reinforce the heat riser valve
(stuck) . Will check on that... That plenum hole issue helps you with tuning a lot! J and K dual choke cables provided perfect synchronization of
chokes, and fast idle cam, on ram cars . This poor running at start in
winter WAS the major issue behind myriad drivability problems with these cars
when new in 60 and 61; as I mentioned ,I was right there when they were new,
many 60-61 rams were pulled, one in a friend’s family in 61 Plymouth 383
wagon ( I tried to get them) . We tolerate this today, as “part of the
bruteâ€, and a non issue in warm climates. For 62, someone in marketing or
service at Chrysler said “no way –no more of this“; ---note the interim
service bulletins on setting up rams, too. Not just a use up parts problem, a
real image problem . By the time J and K were sold, the new short rams only
came in 300’s , a mom in a station wagon or Sport Fury was not dealing with
361/383 auto choke Rams, --which did not work for her. J+K were sold as
performance cars to people with more tolerance for high performance
engines...and now with ability to start up without hassle on cold days, and you
can open the choke /unload from inside if flooded (manual choke!) ---and a
loose converter. Big big improvements right there. . My J gave me zero problems
here, unlike the F. That all this is true is validated by the owners
manuals for F / G etc; it calls attention to rough idle and “solid “
engagement as “characteristic or your high performance engine†etc etc ,
trying to defuse some big issues they had . If you flood one of those 60-61 ram
cars , with automatic chokes you are in for a party. I do not think you
can reasonably start them quickly if flooded without pulling air cleaners and
opening chokes, despite WOT unloaders on the chokes. ( my experience,---
carried ether, two pencils ) and as I mentioned the full club expertise
struggled with the one in Maine, just trying to move it to concourse .Crank
fine, no start. Every time you try to unload choke with foot pedal two more
squirts go into puddle in manifold. WE need to know more tech about the (H? Sport 300? ) that won
NHRA A/SA in 62. (HRM special) Was it front to back AFB dual quads? Huge
boost for Chrysler, faster than all the 409 and 421 GM 4 spd cars , put 727
solidly on the map. Bulletproof auto trans in drag racing? Never before... John From: kmaniak@xxxxxxx [mailto:kmaniak@xxxxxxx] John: With
all due respect, I feel compelled to offer a few clarifications regarding the
manifold and carburetor set ups on the letter series Chryslers. The
in-line twin carburetor set up used on the E and H was designed in such a
manner that the front two barrels of the rear carburetor was the primary
fuel supply to the entire engine at start up and low speed operation.
Therefore, there was need for only one choke, located on the primary barrels of
the rear carburetor as Mike describes. The rear carburetor secondary
barrels, and well as the front carburetor barrels, only opened after the
primary barrels were at least one-third to one-half open. Both
carburetors fed all eight cylinders simultaneously. The
cross ram engines differed from the in-line engines in that each carburetor
only fed four cylinders. At start up and low speed operation, the primary
barrels of both carburetors were required to operate, with each carburetor
feeding only four cylinders. As such, two chokes were required, one for
each carburetor. Given that the '60 & '61 cross rams had automatic
choke pull offs, and each worked independently of the other, I can see how a
lack of synchronization could really mess up cold start engine performance and
drivability. And I agree that the manual choke set up used on the J and
ram K provided synchronization. The manual choke was also cheaper to
produce, and I think Chrysler was pushing "cheaper" when building the
J and ram K. Now
I need to touch for a moment the subject of the "exhaust heat riser
valve". To be clear, this special valve was a thermostatically
operated butterfly valve installed just before the exhaust flange on the
passenger side "log style" exhaust manifold. The purpose of
this valve was to temporarily restrict exhaust flow from the right side of the
engine and force a portion of the exhaust gases from the right side of the
engine through the right cylinder head, then through the base of the one piece
intake manifold, then out through the left head. This allowed the exhaust
to quickly heat the intake manifold for quicker warm up and better cold start
drivability. On engines with intake manifolds and carburetors installed
between the cylinder heads, only one "exhaust heat riser valve" was
installed on the right exhaust manifold. The cross ram engines did not
have carburetors mounted between the heads. The cross ram manifolds included
blocker plates that capped off the upper center exhaust ports in each cylinder
head. As a result, exhaust gases did not flow from head to head on a
cross ram engine. Therefore, no "exhaust heat riser valve" was
required or installed on the ram engines. Each ram manifold receives
exhaust flow from the respective exhaust manifold below it on a continuous
basis. Hopefully
we are all on "one page" now. I welcome any comments or
differing opinions. Chris
the K MANIAC
-----Original Message----- Only one carb was connected to
your setup? So you started on 4 cylinders..? The J setup manual choke split in
two if I remember right , made both carbs do exactly the same thing.. What you
want ... They should have had one choke control
and cross link the carb fast idle and choke mechanically. Not sure why
they did not do that. Would have cost less and worked right.. What they
do matters less ----than they do it together. Exhaust heat riser valves both
have to be in sync too. Or you get loping idle , stalls when you push D on cold
days, equals starting it 5-6 times . If you had manual choke on both, (J) ,
it just let you raise idle high enough manually when cold to cover up all
this. But still harsh D engagement was the norm. Tests that fine front U joint
on 60 -61, too!!. “Clang†!!---J had a little looser converter, not as
harsh maybe. And they are a bear to start if
they get badly flooded , not sure why..My .02: = maybe gas sits in a deep
puddle at bottom of ram under carb till it is good and ready to evaporate out,
(no other way out) but a squirt of ether and away you go. On regular manifold,
that gas would run down into ports. Despite working on these on and
off for what 50 years now, I admit to lots of suffering along the way.
Can do in minutes what used to baffle me for a day. One key thing I found is
that many, if not most of the carbs have destroyed adjusting needles by now ,
due to all the playing with them..if you see a ring or step worn
circumferentially around the needle, no question -- it is junk. Cannot be
adjusted right. That ring comes from “golden screwdriver “ and going too
tight into hole, prior to “backing out 1.5 turns†. I found new Edelbrock
needles (spare parts from them) are beefier and fit and work even with possible
damage in carb body..taper is slightly different. .# 1 thing you can do about
frustrating drifty funky idle setup. ..that changes by itself every time you
look at it. I mistakenly junked several “untuneable “ ‘defectiveâ€
carbs before knowing that, After careful rebuilds, still the idle problem
remained ..... From: Michael Moore [mailto:mmoore8425@xxxxxxx] John, I have owned my 300H since 1965 or so. When I
got my car, it had a very nnicely installed manual choke. It was a very clean
installation, which I thought was factory for a while, using one of the
unused round knobs beneath the dome of the instrument panel. The unused knob
had a set screw and was used to connect to a choke wire which went to the rear
carb. It was actually, I thought, much more useful than my curent electric
stove choke. I only removed it because it would gradually
creep into the choke position as the engine vibrated, so I frequently had to
push the choke back in. Sometimes, on a long trip, I woujld only notice it when
I realized the engine wasn't running right and would find the choke fully
engaged. Otherwise, I thought the car started
easier as I could momentarily choke the crap out of it if it was cold and
as soon as it fired start coming off of choke. Mike Moore 300H On Jan 29, 2014, at 4:21 AM, John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Another aspect of this was very poor choke
pull off on ram cars ; one side pulls off before other even today . Certain
types of cutomers would not deal with this in 60 , 61. I was there , one person
i know had rams pulled off 383 61 plymouth wagon over terrible idle /cold start
/warmup stalling isuues in Boston ... New car . J and K (?) had manual chokes to ensure
syncrony . Ram cars are cut a lot of slack today , but remembet at meet in maine
it took 5 club membets half an hour to start a perfect flooded F
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