RE: [Chrysler300] Re: Power Window Gearbox Failure

Hi Jamie..given all this you did at junk yard, do you know what years interchange? Most of this discussion below seems 63 up, in your case, right? As you say, different from 60,61, and possibly 62 –they are in that first target group. I think they rev’d these lift motors with body design rev’s. I have not had trouble with 58,57, personally, other than wear and slop….but lots of broken nylon gears ,60,61. I have never worked on 62. Need someone who knows what designs fit what years for sure to chime in. Possibly two designs in 60-62, this is only one we have seen on 10 + cars, cover comes off gearbox.

In some mount positions, Motor down in particular, or sloped down, water gets in along output shaft ruins it , I did not know about valve seals to make a rain umbrella, good idea!. I had to silicone or RTV the old ones to seal against shaft, as they do not fit tight. Drain must obviously be at lowest point . Just in case . Idea is keep gravity water out of nose bearing.

It turns out J-Y has the prototype gears in his F, working great, with new Delrin rear lift rollers too. . They should be bulletproof. The gears were not simple to figure out ,as the loading on the central hub with steel pinion shaft at the shaft attachment is very very high in PSI, ( I remember ,like 30k psi + ) why all plastic gear or “printing” is out, still worry about slop developing, but should be OK for a very long time. ; thought about all steel gear, but machining tough and rough finish, might chew up brass worm. . Aluminum bronze expensive but strong enough and easy to machine to a reasonable finish, but each tooth is cut and profiled on a pre machined bronze disc blank, one at a time, slowly . I can see why metal hub and nylon teeth in production. An Ok 5 year design, as long as nylon stays ok, which it does not.

Disc is cut from bar or plate stock. Central hole special shape, as you know.

I know people are interested, but right now it is about 10$ of actual cost for material, and 2 hours of CNC per gear , so even at 55$ or so CNC time, ( that is a dirt cheap cost, guy and machine—carpenters get 75$, CNC well over a 100 , usual) we are into 120 on that part, @55 alone. We think we can get that down, with tooling, if we had 75 or 100 , first 25 made this way. I emphasize not a resto business here, done for love of cars , combined with desperation over failing gear boxes, and enabled by quick access to our company CNC, so need slack/understanding, , not a store..why J-Y was doing it for/with me, to help. But we need to get 150 each, for gear alone, now? Does that fly out there? Maybe an hour to rebuild box, at 55, would be 205, if no BS, motor is ok with spruce up. That has been the case for me, on many boxes, other than occasional rusty circuit breaker . Save stripped ones for worms and motors! Especially from dry climates…

If that 150 works for you today, contact Keith Simons, at email above, by email. Contact him also about any rebuilds, estimated in 205$ area, due to 150 gear in it . Shipping is what it is.

Like other projects , we can do like this for now, small batches, but if someone in club starts a demand list and we get to75 , maybe cost of gear is going toward half this…not fully worked out yet. We are looking anyway.

I emphasize J_Y’s caution..if you take this apart naively, it is more than capable of completely removing your fingers with that spring , it will snap shut if you remove motor. If you touch it, be beyond careful to restrain spring action positively. FYI< There is no need to index gear to pinion at all , but spring tension must be kept right ---suggestions on holding spring welcome on server. I do not trust vise grips. Maybe drill hole for ¼-20? ?? freeze in place before taking apart . Once apart, how tight was spring will come up . Think 3-4 X before touching tools.

Lube from assembly seems to be white grease which goes solid. Chassis lube or wheel bearing grease better

We will be placing an ad for some other things ,C+D door handle kits with springs and fabricated/modified shoulder bolts to replace rivets. Needed to replate these too. There are two sizes, later (D) and replacement beefier, larger rivets (MOPAR upgrade?)

Best, John

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamie Hyde jamie.hyde@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 9:09 AM
To: 'Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [Chrysler300] Re: Power Window Gearbox Failure

To quote John Grady

”The little cap of plastic between motor and gear box is there
to throw water off .”

I also found that the early style of Chrysler overhead valve seals works well to replace that little cap. Those valve seals are the ones that come in the big Felpro complete gasket kit that you did not know what they fit. I have collected several bags of them. In my case the little water slingers were broken, so when I took my boxes apart I replaced them with the valve seals. Additional notes to consider, I had one motor that “looked fine” but when I bench tested the motor unloaded, it turned ok but the motor exhibited a large current draw and the circuit breaker opened. I removed the rubber motor coating to examine the internals and found that the parts were rusted beyond belief, I could not save it, and had to use a parts motor that had broken mounting ears. I think that the overall design of the gear box and cantilevered motor is bad. You have this heavy motor and gearbox hanging down inside the door and if one were to slam the door closed in a fit of anger the motor breaks off the mounting ears. In one of my front doors the motor was laying down inside the door just a whirring away and doing nothing when I attempted to lower the window. I went to a junk yard looking for a modern solution and I took about thirty doors apart searching for something that I could make work. The way the motor and gear box is mounted and the drive gear makes it a unique part and nothing I found would work, even modified. I contacted a former club member who sold me a ton of parts. In those parts boxes were a complete set of 63 motors but with broken ears, bad gears, or rust, it took me 8 of them to make a set of four. I discovered that the 62 motors and gear boxes are different than the 63’s as the 63 motors and cases are all the same, front to back and right to left, where as the 62’s have a right and left gear box. Also do not mix the gear case casting numbers up if you dissemble all the boxes at one time like I did and wonder why two out of the four box’s would bind upon reassembly. Look at the housing and you will see a number 5, or a 2 inside a circle. When I inadvertently took the cover from a “five” and placed it on a “two” housing it was binding, I swapped on the other cover and all is well with both of them. Look at the Merle Wolfer article and you can see the 5 casting number clearly displayed in one of the images. With my eight gear boxes I only saw a 5, or a 2 casting number used, the part numbers are the same. I wire brushed and painted the motor housing after is pealed the rubber coating off then used silicone to seal the top of the motor, also count the shims on the motor shaft when you open it up, they have an order to them. I polished the drive motor shaft, cleaned the commutator, and also placed a few drops of oil on the felt pad in the lower motor bearing cap that is only accessible from the inside. There is a “drain port” on the lower of brush side of the motor case that was covered in the rubber factory applied rubber coating. I uncovered, and cleaned it out so I did not have to drill a drain hole as John recommends. I also discovered that there are slight differences in the actual motor housings suggesting that there may be two different suppliers or manufacturing revisions during production. I did not mix housings and motor shafts up, I selected the longest brushes and soldered them onto the best motors. And people wonder why it takes so long to restore, or repair one of these cars.

Jamie Hyde