RE: [Chrysler300] I walk the line

["'John Grady' jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi,  Ray. It does not compensate by itself for “angles”. It only works when they remain parallel. Can explain why but long. Maybe you meant to say can move up and down,  but angle of pinion input and transmission output should not change much .it is designed that way. Briefly, when offset,  but parallel, the shaft will turn a little faster and slower periodically at each turn; the joint at other end cancels that , is doing the opposite thing. Yes viewing angle of drive shaft from side changes as rear goes up and down but opposite thing is happening at other end..if they stay parallel, they cancel out. . If nose of diff rises or falls (as opposed to moving straight up and down) it vibrates the shaft , as cancellation is not right. 

 

They are not CV joints ---which as name implies , keep a constant (angular) velocity on both shafts when angled  ; it works perfectly if shafts it connects stay parallel, and they are supposed to when axle moves up and down ; a few degrees off ok, but more than say 3-4 you feel it. Why axle shims too .

 

It is of big consequence if engine angled as then rear axle should be angled the same way…to keep shafts parallel= not possible.  That cannot be,   in a car pointing or tracking straight ahead at rear axle, pinion points straight out.   .exactly what was wrong with Studebaker. Engine nose off to pass side, trans mount was in middle. Moved same amount huge vibration gone. 

 

U joint does not know if left right , up down or or side to side is wrong. Doubt that? turn your car on its side. Side to side is now up and down.

 

From: Ray Jones [mailto:1970hurst@xxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 3:56 PM
To: dan300f@xxxxxxx
Cc: John Grady; Rich Barber; dave.dumais@xxxxxxxxx; Listsaver 300 Club; Ray Jones
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] I walk the line

 

The purpose of the U-Joint is to compensate for the constant changes of the angle between the two parts.

As the car is driven, the Diff. is moving up and down, so the angle changes between the Drive Shaft and the Diff.

The angle between the trans. out put and Drive Shaft is also changing, that's just how it works.

Therefore, whether or not the engine is dead straight in the chassis or not is of no consequence.
Engine, Drive Shaft and Diff. are never exactly aligned unless the car is not moving.
If there is a vibration, you have another problem.

None of this is to say you should not make sure all the parts are installed properly and the engine is sitting in the perfect space that allows everything to work properly. A little off to the side is fine if it all fits OK

Left-Right angle OK, but, the engine must be level when the car is at rest. 
This is for the Carb. bowl to function correctly and is checked  with a level on top of the Carb. both side to side and front to back.

And if you have a Drive Shaft with a Middle joint, it is there to prevent Drive Shaft whip.

Ray

 

 

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 2:20 PM, dan300f@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

  

Hi all:

 

Seems to me that I was taught in college (55 years ago) that engines and things  that  had mass and moving parts were offset to counteract the torque of the engine, etc.

 

Dan Reitz

____________________________________________________________________

In a message dated 1/29/2015 12:11:33 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:

 

I went through this in a Studeabaker, w 2 piece shaft, 3 u joints . Lot of pain,  lot of learning  . ( 50 starlight with 354 hemi, had this all wrong before I got it ) What is critical is that the pinion angle “line” in 3D and the line of the engine/trans are parallel in 3D space ; so a parallel offset even 4” ok side to side up or down , all ok . To side looks awful, driveshaft angles into axle when viewed under car, , but to driveshaft ,no different than up and down angles .(some 4wd front shafts are like that..and some old jeeps in back )  I measured the up and down part by setting frame or engine line level to good floor (not the same ,can be, but a fixed difference you can figure out ), kind of zero that with jacks (one way) ,  then check pinion angle, axle loaded .  A degree or so different with rear wheels loaded is ideal, generally we are worried about up and down angle (=axle tube shims at spring U bolts) ; but as I think Richard meant, also critical looking down on car from sky (if you will) ----that 1) pinion is square to car axis , axle tubes 90 degrees to car axis, and that 2) engine crank line is the same , square to car axis . If front of engine or rear of transmission is moved sideways , vibration will drive you crazy . Axle pinion should be inherently OK in this direction,  set by distance from leaf spring front eye to center of axle tube, usually a locating pin of some kind keeps that the same .

 

Bottom line: if crank pulley is 1” to passenger side, by design, that is OK, trans output also needs to be 1” to passenger side , re trans mounts ..both off car centerline 

 

Rationale is I think to clear steering box , ex manifold, starter and column? PS gave them a wild ride fitting it in, compared to straight six and manual steering ..first ones were huge …

 

I could never understand why starter on Chrysler not on other side, move oil filter..

 

John

 

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'Rich Barber' c300@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 9:19 PM
To: 'Dave Dumais'; 'Chrysler300Club Intl.'
Subject: [Chrysler300] I walk the line

 





The engines in my ’55 and ’64 300’s are offset toward the passenger side and I know the rear tranny mount is also offset to the driver’s side in the ’55 as is the drive tunnel.  The rear tranny mount of the ’55 can be installed either way and had been installed backwards so that the engine, transmission and driveshaft were angled improperly.  I discovered this when addition of a couple of heavyweights in the back seat caused the driveshaft to thump the tunnel.  I had noticed no other problems of vibration but everything was out of whack.  

 

I believe the offset is common with the rationale being to offset the weight of the driver and to give the driver a little more foot room for the accelerator pedal.  This offset is huge in our motor home which is built on the GM P30 chassis and has the back of its 454 intruding between the foot wells.  I looked at our ’99 Jeep and its engine seems to be perfectly centered.  

 

It’s possible the rear tranny mount on all or most of our 300’s may also be offset and subject to installation error.  And, so, worth a peek next time you are underneath to make sure crankshaft, tail shaft and drive shaft are pretty much lined up with the back U-joint being responsible for making up any angularity offsets.  It would not surprise me if the pinion shaft was also slightly out of orthogonality.

 

Rich Barber

Director and Membership Manager

Chrysler 300 Club, Inc.

1801 Redwine Terrace

Brentwood, CA 94513-6000

Home: (925) 513-6583 <tel:%28925%29%20513-6583> 

Cell:  (925) 783-4893 <tel:%28925%29%20783-4893> 

e-mail:  c300@xxxxxxx

Website:  www.chrysler300clubinc.com <http://www.chrysler300clubinc.com/> 

 

 

 

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dave Dumais dave.dumais@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 4:18 PM
To: Chrysler300Club Intl.
Subject: [Chrysler300] Straight and on centerline?

 

  

My engine and 4 spd are now installed.  Good mounts lined up on the frame studs, and trans tailshaft was tweaked into place to line up mount with bolt and washer.

 

Looking into the engine comp't with hood not installed, the rear of the engine seems to be twisted a bit towards the pass side.

 

Should the center of water pump line up with center of radiator grill?  (radiator is not installed)

I am thinking of installing radiator and then 4 blade fan, and check clearance between fan tips and radiator.

 

If the spacing is even,then there should be no concerns>

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

 










-- 

Ray Jones. Y'all come on down an see us. Ya hear?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Posted by: "John Grady" <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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