RE: [Chrysler300] Group 27 Batteries

["'John Grady' jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Don..you are 100% right. All you said. Loved Die Hards, bulletproof. 

 

The green and white ones, ?Northeast Battery? =Terrible. Mismatched fill of acid typical, sends you to dead cell land

 

Parasitic draws kill the battery in old cars, especially the clock. They never keep good time anyway, very cheap 2 $ designs, so disconnect it. Your mileage may vary. You can make it tick at show by reconnecting it.

 

I was told about discharge on concrete floors, and laughed cynically , “yeah, right” , but found one year I had two dead batteries (new ones) on concrete garage floor in spring, but old batteries in cars fine. Wha? 

 

Checking further, the open circuit voltage of a lead acid battery is caused by chemical reactions , all of which are temp dependent, so the voltage varies minutely with temperature..no problem so far..and why VR’s have temp compensation in them..even old mechanical ones.

 

If you put the battery on a concrete floor, the bottom is kept cool, but top will assume temp of room. So top of battery is putting out a slightly different voltage than the cool bottom. This sets up a current inside the battery from top to bottom, which discharges the battery , but it takes months ..maybe 6. Researching further, the phone company and utility companies sometime use huge lead acid batteries , individual 2 volt cells. They PUMP the acid to keep temp the same through out!

 

Last , on battery tenders and ‘float chargers” ; say our battery like Don’s is fully charged put away in fall, and is 80 amp hour capacity. Any more charging IS overcharging and WILL make gas out of water , causing “water loss” . But say we carefully set our battery tender to 100Ma by knob or by design. (typical number) that is .1Amp . now in next 24 hours it will cram 2.4 AH into the already full 80 AH battery, all goes to gas. But even worse, after 40 days , I have put in twice its total capacity (another 80 AH) into it ; the battery is wrecked , 10 lbs in a 5 lb bag. Despite what some “think” about them, this set of conditions is the EE reality . Some cars (new) might draw 100 mA all the time for computers etc this overcharge  does not happen as severely ,possibly a place for battery tenders ---so your BMW does not go dead in three weeks (except at airport) . But not our old cars ,that draw nothing. 

 

Proof? They know all this. Proof= Why a different (lower mA) one for motorcycles. I put one “fully automatic’ “will not overcharge” 39$ auto one on a 650 triumph classic clear battery, 20 days later battery was empty..about a 5AH battery. Best sound tender ever made was it hitting bottom of trash can.

 

Because I had about 12 of the cheap ones, I now turn them on for about a day about once a month in winter …that will not hurt the car. They will draw current back if 12V is connected, too, so you have to disconnect 12v side not just 120 plug ( Harbor Tool especailly)  ; but to Don’s point, probably not needed. At all. And further, on some,  overcharging causes acid to leak/bubble  out. 

 

 

 

From: Don Verity [mailto:d.verity@xxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 8:59 AM
To: David Schwandt; 'John Grady'; 'Mike Zagata'
Cc: 'Rich Barber'; 'Dave Geise'; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Group 27 Batteries

 

Seems I’ve mentioned this before, but it seems relevant again. I have never used any kind of battery tender on my cars. My 66 Imperial with 440 is parked in the Fall, and Started in the Spring. I don’t even disconnect the battery. It cranks just fine every year. It also sits outside all year, and it got pretty cold around here last Winter. My 61 G also was good with batteries. It still has the same battery after over 10 years. I have used Die Hards in the past and got almost 10 years out of them. I’m using NAPA group 27 batteries now and don’t have more than 5 years experience with them, but they seem to do well. 

I also still use points and drum brakes, so I guess I’m just not up on new techSmile

Don

 

From: mailto:Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 

Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 8:34 AM

To: 'John Grady' <mailto:jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  ; 'Mike Zagata' <mailto:mzagata@xxxxxxxxxxx>  

Cc: 'Rich Barber' <mailto:c300@xxxxxxx>  ; 'Dave Geise' <mailto:daverg1@xxxxxxxxxxx>  ; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 

Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Group 27 Batteries

 

  

Oh Boy!!!

Here we go again!

Think I’ll just sit back, pop a top and enjoy!!

There’s probably an emotion-a-con for that some where!

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Grady jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 7:30 AM
To: Mike Zagata
Cc: Rich Barber; Dave Geise; <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Group 27 Batteries

I have found battery tenders wreck batteries . Ever notice how a 7 year old toyota (or dart) starts fine after left all winter , ? Sometimes the best thing you can do for batteries is leave them alone , dudconnect one post till spring. The battery tender etc tries to charge a battery already full , that causes electrolysis of water into hydrogen and oxygen = dry upper plates in battery , ruined . Automatic chargers are all BS , you simply cannot tell state of charge of a resting battery from the volts ; it is 12.6 whether half full or full . ( you might have noticed bad batteries ( with no dead cell) still read 12.6 but go dead in seconds on starting . 

All this with EE hat on . I have been working on this for years , have an idea . But most of what I read ( series on this in auto restorer ) are 100% wrong , written empirically . The real info is in a book (SAE) written by chief engineer of Lucas batteries. 

One truth is never put a battery on concrete floor ; anyone know why ? Answer later !

On May 27, 2015, at 6:23 AM, "'Mike Zagata' mzagata@xxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]"<Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Try using a “Battery Minder” as it allows you to select among the various types of battery and thus avoid damaging them. You can also set the amperage. Mike

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'Rich Barber' c300@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 2:53 AM
To: 'Dave Geise'; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Group 27 Batteries

I suggest Googling “charging voltage gel batteries” to get up to speed on the care and feeding of gel batteries. It’s not just business as usual under the hood or on the end of a battery charger.

300K’ly,

Rich Barber

Brentwood, CA

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'Dave Geise' daverg1@xxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 6:31 PM
To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Chrysler300] Group 27 Batteries

Hi to all,

Just replaced the battery in my 57C with one from Antique Auto Battery 

in Ohio. Original appearance Willard case and maintenance free. $280 and worth every $ to finally be out of the lead/acid business.

Best Regards

Dave Geise NJ

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------
Posted by: "John Grady" <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
------------------------------------

To send a message to this group, send an email to:
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or
go to https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/all/manage/edit

For list server instructions, go to http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm

For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chrysler300/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chrysler300/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    Chrysler300-digest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    Chrysler300-fullfeatured@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:
    https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/