Re: [Chrysler300] The wheels on the 300's go round and round
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Re: [Chrysler300] The wheels on the 300's go round and round





Hi All,

I've got wire rims on my 62 and to get the caps off, without damaging any of the plating, I simply use a 24" length of 2x2 wood. Place one end under the cap spinner and the middle against the tire. Caps pop right off and the wood protects the finish. Simple and cheap. Use a rubber mallet to reinstall. Charlie in Ottawa

 

 

On 2015-05-28 14:17, John Lazenby french_fryguy@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] wrote:

 

 

Regarding the center wheel caps I can offer the following.  There were two sources for these.  One being Bob Boreinstein (sp) located in SoCal and the others were Wheel Vintiques sold though such as Coker Tire.  I've found Bob's to be far better in fit and quality of the plating.  With this stated I will also say I haven't purchased any in years so maybe things have changed.
 
I've also experienced the sloppy fit on the caps with the rattle.  This is quickly correct with a bit of duct tape around the clip and mating surface of the cap.
 
Last, to remove these caps without destroying chrome finishes both on the cap and wheel I use one of these tools.  Super price on Ken-tool 31568 at ToolTopia.com
 
 
There are various brands out there and I'm not saying this is the best or worst but the photo shows a good likeness to mine.  If you place the claw end under one of the spinners sticking out past the cap and the rubber bumper on the tire (I put a towel between the tire and bumper) and pry lightly the cap will come off without a problem. I also recommend placing a towel on the ground where the cap will land just in case it gets away from you.
 
When installing the cap have a couple of flat screwdrivers ready as you may need to depress the hold down tabs.  With just a light push of the tab the cap should go on correctly.
 
I currently have five cars with "factory" wires, some original and some restored.  Over the years I've had very little issues with any of them and do run tubes in all except one.
 
Balancing has never been an issue with the weights being on the back side.  This can be accomplished with outer rim and tape weights.  It seems a pity to take a beautiful wheel and mar it up with a weight on the outside.
 
John Lazenby



On Thursday, May 28, 2015 10:40 AM, "'Rich Barber' c300@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


 
 
Jack:
 
Thanks for sharing notice of the failure and good luck on finding a proper wire-spoke wheel.  We look forward to more details on the failure.  Glad you and the car survived the failure.
 
Some observations on Motor Wheel brand and other wire-spoke wheels:
The Motor Wheel rims on the '55-'56 300's had only 48 spokes—other old and current wire spoke wheels have more than that—perhaps to reduce stress in each spoke?
Restoration includes disassembly, removal of old chrome, possible straightening and then chrome plating.
I purchased a used set of restored Motor Wheel wire-spoke rims for our '55 C-300 and had only one problem in 10K miles—a broken SS spoke.  The plating had some minor deterioration around the spoke holes indicating a possible less than perfect cleaning and/or polishing of the bare steel wheel in the spoke-hole area during the process.  The area around the spoke hole is also an area of high stress. 
I ran L78-15 Remington bias-ply tires with new tubes.  The wide WSW's and wire spoke wheels added a lot to the appearance of the car.
The wheels had a layer of rubber-like material on the inside and laid up over the spoke-hole area—ostensibly to prevent leakage of a tubeless tire and to protect the tube if used.  There was evidence of surface corrosion under the rubber layer.   The '55 service manual indicates that Chryslers with the wire-spoke wheels were equipped with tubes—even the Blue Streaks on the C-300's.  Wondering whether the original Motor Wheel rims came with the rubberized inner coating or whether they relied on the more-common removable rubber "flap" to protect the tube from damage by spoke-ends.
The jury is out on whether or not radial ply tires over stress an old wheel.  It would be most interesting to know what kind of tire was on the wheel that failed and what the cold inflation pressure was.  I recently read that radial tires should be inflated to 90% of maximum which was 40 psi on the 44 psi maximum pressure radial tires on our 300K.  I would imagine the original rated pressure on the 8.50 X 14 bias-ply tires in 1964 was more like 28-30 psi.  My recollection of airing up tires on the island at the Phillips 66 station in the '50's is that 30 psi was the high end for the bias-ply passenger car tires.
I priced re-chroming the wheels on our '55 and was told the per-wheel labor cost would be greater than purchasing a new wheel.
Chrome plating can involve up to three different metals with chrome being the last. 
All plating involves electrolysis which also generates hydrogen.
Hydrogen can migrate into ever-present micro-cracks in the steel and lead to failure due to "hydrogen stress embrittlement". This is a significant problem with steel pipelines, bridges and other steel structures where hydrogen may be introduced in fabrication or operation.
Controlled heating after application of the final chrome layer can be used to drive out most of the hydrogen.  Not an issue on non-structural trim but a serious problem with wheels.  Wondering whether chrome shops doing the restoration of wheels are cognizant of the need for a stint in the oven after the final plating process.
I recall hearing noise from the rims as they flexed down the road.  There being  192 spokes and 384 spoke-ends in varying tension this was not surprising.
Proper balancing of a wheel and tire assembly requires placing some of the weights on the inside and some on the outside of the rim.  For appearance sake, I requested placing all weights on the inside, resulting in a less-than-optimum wheel balance.  Taking extra time to match the heavy side of the tire with the light side of the wheel before balancing would be worthwhile but requires strict direction to the tire tech.
 
Finally, the reproduction center cover "hubcaps" on our wire wheels did not fit well and noticeably rattled as we went down the road.  Adding a ring of ¼" weather strip solved that problem.  Popping these caps off without damaging cap or wheel was also challenging and required just the right sort of lever arm to apply the necessary force.
 
All in all, I like the vintage look of the wire spoke wheels but understand why the industry standard is stamped steel design.  The wire-spoke wheel covers on our '86 Chrysler T&C convertible do offer the look and the safety, albeit rather chintzy.
 
300K'ly,
Rich Barber
Brentwood, CA
 
 
 
 
 
 
From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'Jack Boyle' jackcboyle@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 7:38 AM
To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Group 27 Batteries
 
 
After almost two years attempting to get four safe and presentable wire wheels on my C300 I am still one wheel away. On the way home from the Bentonville 300 meet we had a near catastrophic wheel failure. One on my recently restored wheels split in two locations as it tried to pull itself apart.

I will document the trials and tribulations of this long and troubled road in a future post but in the meantime, I need one rust free wire wheel or just the rim for my C300. Any leads would be appreciated.

Thanks to all. ...Jack

Jack Boyle

(913) 544 4650

Enjoying the same C-300 since 1967

IMG_0623 small

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 



On Thursday, May 28, 2015 10:40 AM, "'Rich Barber' c300@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


 
 
Jack:
 
Thanks for sharing notice of the failure and good luck on finding a proper wire-spoke wheel.  We look forward to more details on the failure.  Glad you and the car survived the failure.
 
Some observations on Motor Wheel brand and other wire-spoke wheels:
The Motor Wheel rims on the '55-'56 300's had only 48 spokes—other old and current wire spoke wheels have more than that—perhaps to reduce stress in each spoke?
Restoration includes disassembly, removal of old chrome, possible straightening and then chrome plating.
I purchased a used set of restored Motor Wheel wire-spoke rims for our '55 C-300 and had only one problem in 10K miles—a broken SS spoke.  The plating had some minor deterioration around the spoke holes indicating a possible less than perfect cleaning and/or polishing of the bare steel wheel in the spoke-hole area during the process.  The area around the spoke hole is also an area of high stress. 
I ran L78-15 Remington bias-ply tires with new tubes.  The wide WSW's and wire spoke wheels added a lot to the appearance of the car.
The wheels had a layer of rubber-like material on the inside and laid up over the spoke-hole area—ostensibly to prevent leakage of a tubeless tire and to protect the tube if used.  There was evidence of surface corrosion under the rubber layer.   The '55 service manual indicates that Chryslers with the wire-spoke wheels were equipped with tubes—even the Blue Streaks on the C-300's.  Wondering whether the original Motor Wheel rims came with the rubberized inner coating or whether they relied on the more-common removable rubber "flap" to protect the tube from damage by spoke-ends.
The jury is out on whether or not radial ply tires over stress an old wheel.  It would be most interesting to know what kind of tire was on the wheel that failed and what the cold inflation pressure was.  I recently read that radial tires should be inflated to 90% of maximum which was 40 psi on the 44 psi maximum pressure radial tires on our 300K.  I would imagine the original rated pressure on the 8.50 X 14 bias-ply tires in 1964 was more like 28-30 psi.  My recollection of airing up tires on the island at the Phillips 66 station in the '50's is that 30 psi was the high end for the bias-ply passenger car tires.
I priced re-chroming the wheels on our '55 and was told the per-wheel labor cost would be greater than purchasing a new wheel.
Chrome plating can involve up to three different metals with chrome being the last. 
All plating involves electrolysis which also generates hydrogen.
Hydrogen can migrate into ever-present micro-cracks in the steel and lead to failure due to "hydrogen stress embrittlement". This is a significant problem with steel pipelines, bridges and other steel structures where hydrogen may be introduced in fabrication or operation.
Controlled heating after application of the final chrome layer can be used to drive out most of the hydrogen.  Not an issue on non-structural trim but a serious problem with wheels.  Wondering whether chrome shops doing the restoration of wheels are cognizant of the need for a stint in the oven after the final plating process.
I recall hearing noise from the rims as they flexed down the road.  There being  192 spokes and 384 spoke-ends in varying tension this was not surprising.
Proper balancing of a wheel and tire assembly requires placing some of the weights on the inside and some on the outside of the rim.  For appearance sake, I requested placing all weights on the inside, resulting in a less-than-optimum wheel balance.  Taking extra time to match the heavy side of the tire with the light side of the wheel before balancing would be worthwhile but requires strict direction to the tire tech.
 
Finally, the reproduction center cover "hubcaps" on our wire wheels did not fit well and noticeably rattled as we went down the road.  Adding a ring of ¼" weather strip solved that problem.  Popping these caps off without damaging cap or wheel was also challenging and required just the right sort of lever arm to apply the necessary force.
 
All in all, I like the vintage look of the wire spoke wheels but understand why the industry standard is stamped steel design.  The wire-spoke wheel covers on our '86 Chrysler T&C convertible do offer the look and the safety, albeit rather chintzy.
 
300K'ly,
Rich Barber
Brentwood, CA
 
 
 
 
 
 
From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'Jack Boyle' jackcboyle@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 7:38 AM
To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Group 27 Batteries
 
 
After almost two years attempting to get four safe and presentable wire wheels on my C300 I am still one wheel away. On the way home from the Bentonville 300 meet we had a near catastrophic wheel failure. One on my recently restored wheels split in two locations as it tried to pull itself apart.

I will document the trials and tribulations of this long and troubled road in a future post but in the meantime, I need one rust free wire wheel or just the rim for my C300. Any leads would be appreciated.

Thanks to all. ...Jack

Jack Boyle

(913) 544 4650

Enjoying the same C-300 since 1967

IMG_0623 small

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 




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