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The 1964 wiring diagram clearly shows that all accessory, lighting and fan load is served by the alternator before the “residual” current gets to the Ammeter—IF the alternator is operating with sufficient output to satisfy the load of accessories, lights, motors & etc. I think this has been standard design for many years. Thus, the Ammeter only measures and displays the current going to the battery (plus the clock, horn and accessory circuit breaker load, if any (p/w, p/seat(s), p/top, p/locks (4-dr)) and indicates this current as “Charge”. You are correct that the horn (plus the clock and power accessories are connected to the battery side of the Ammeter and thus can be operated with the key off. You properly note that the Ammeter needle moves to “Charge” while operating a horn, power seat, window or top. That does suggest that if there is some short or other problem with power top, seat, window or locks, the accessory circuit breaker might be making and breaking to protect the wiring and motors. Perhaps this circuit breaker can be found and temporarily disconnected to determine if the problem lies in the wiring beyond it. If the engine is not running, or if the alternator is not “putting out”, then the current flows from the battery, through the Ammeter to any connected load and properly indicates this as “Discharge”. On a good day, with all diodes firing, all connections clean, tight and corrosion free; no shorts and the Voltage regulator properly controlling the system Voltage, the Ammeter pretty much sits steadily in the middle—indicating the battery is fully charged and the alternator is supplying enough Amps/Watts to run the attached load. The full output of the alternator would have to be measured at a separate place and would be of little value in assessing the health of the electrical system. I’ve not seen the circuitry behind the electrical warning light on newer cars but I’m guessing it causes the light to stay off when there is charging current and causes the light to come on when the alternator is not serving the load. Magnitude is not that important. Turning the key on but not starting the car results in the light comes on indicating discharge—if only to power the ignition system. Fire her up and (hopefully) the light goes out. Break an alternator belt or smoke a diode and the light will come back on. Time to turn off the lights, a/c and all other load and nurse her in to the shop. Finally, it is noteworthy to observe that as connected load in vehicles increased over the years, the manufacturers elected to keep all that power management and high current under the hood rather than route it in and out through the firewall and up behind the dash. “Idiot” lights and Voltmeters replaced Ammeters. Secret codes indicating an electrical problem are now sent to the vehicle’s computer where they can be retrieved by a skilled and well-equipped technician. Maybe if we did not have Ammeters, we’d never know what was going on until the red light came on, the smoke started curling or that lovely “Check Engine” light comes on. 300K’ly, Rich Barber Brentwood, CA From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'mgoodknight@xxxxxxxx' mgoodknight@xxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] Bob and others interested, I've not personally had or even witnessed the problem you describe with an electronic regulator in place, but with the mechanical ones it's a common malfunction---even normal to a small extent. One thing that I've not yet seen addressed here regards electrical accessories that are connected to a 12 volt source that does not draw through the ammeter circuit. The only such device I can think of at the moment is the horn(s). The horn relay usually get voltage from an ammeter connected circuit, but the horns do not. What you can observe in some cases is that when you toot the horn with the engine running (alternator producing) the ammeter will show a charge rather than either a discharge or remain near neutral. The reason for that is the regulator calls for more current from the alternator to feed the horn and that current must pass through the ammeter possibly make you think the battery might be getting an extra charge. The point I'm making is not that the horns are a problem, but consider the possibility of some other device with only an intermittent demand which might be connected to a non-ammeter circuit. With such a connection a small electrical demand would cause some ammeter movement without causing a noticeable light flicker.
Tim, I agree, it is a challenging problem. Going up to Reno last week, at night, low beam on, the ammeter was swinging so fast, full arc left to right, that at some point the needle was hard to see because it was a blur. Recognizing that replacing the mechanical regulator with a solid state unit does help some folks with the problem, that alone is not the fix for everyone. I know because I have had some encouragement when I switched to a solid state regulator but the problem always comes back. I've tried at least 3 mechanical regulators and now 3 solid state units, the current one purchased from John Hertog before his passing. Still have another non-stock looking solid state unit in the box. I've also checked my connections many times, no corrosion or loose fittings. Original alternator has been rebuilt to stock specs and removed and returned to rebuilder for testing only to have it handed back to me stating there is no problem as it checks out on their machine. I Googled the problem yesterday, and most responses lead to the Imperial website with members posting responses on the issue. Some suggest to put a shunt wire across the ammeter to damp the fluctuations. One writer says 18 gauge the other says 14 gauge.  The thinking behind the jumper is to provide an additional current path to reduce the load through the ammeter and dampen the needle movement. Sounds like a band aid to me. Others say to look for bad grounds. I'm going to spend some time looking at the wiring real close, but it won't be the first time I've tried to resolve "the mystery of the bouncing needle" Bob J From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'tomlin' tomlin@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] Folks, I have read with great interest the various e-mails on the above subject. This has been discussed years previously, without successfully resolving the issue, I think. I have a 300-K on hand, plus a 1968 New Yorker. Previously had another 300-K. Only the latter did not “blink†its headlights as it went down the highway! Naturally the pulsing ammeter accompanied the blinking. The one that did not blink/pulse had a mechanical voltage regulator (I believe original Chrysler manufacture!). The other two now have the electronic version (IF I remember correctly these were available through our club member who is now gone) which helps but does not eliminate the issue. Both only pulse the ammeter when the headlights are “onâ€. High beams make the situation worse on the 1964, but tend to smooth out the blinking/pulsing on the 1968. Both have had a special ground wire run from the voltage regulator case to the bulk head ground where the ground wire from the engine goes to the chassis. NO improvement. Now of the two, I have had the 1968 since my Granddad died and left it for me in 1971. For MANY years it was OK. Then the ammeter failed and I replaced it (another story about a parts man who felt nothing could fail in the ammeter). Still no issue with pulsing until the ALTERNATOR was replaced (Chrysler Corp rebuilt unit, not a bargain parts store piece)! Once that happened, I had the pulsing at the ammeter under most driving conditions. The electronic voltage regulator tended to reduce that except when I am driving with low beams on. I went through quite a few mechanical and one other electronic voltage regulators trying to “fix†the problem. I am not an electronics engineer. I DO have an opinion! I am of the opinion the three diodes are not fully functioning correctly on the alternator and a less than smooth current is produced (three phased currents to look like a smooth 13 volt current or there abouts). I do not know anyone that has the ability/equipment/knowledge to check this. I should think a good EE with an oscilloscope could do so. By no means is it unique. My friend, Galen Wollbrink, has it with his several old Chryslers. Almost looks like these pulsing headlights on motorcycles these days. Anyone with a good solution would surely be welcome to solve this issue! Most of what I read and what I have tried only address accomodating and lessening the issue, not really fixing it. Thank you for hearing yet another “opinionâ€! Tim Tomlinson
__._,_.___ Posted by: "Rich Barber" <c300@xxxxxxx> To send a message to this group, send an email to: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or go to https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/all/manage/edit For list server instructions, go to http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang __,_._,___ |
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