You make a very good point Ryan, about certain motives in the hobby centered around going mainly for the most money, latest trend, not the car. I never cared what it was worth, just liked the car--- fixed up nicely is part of that . But now you get afraid to drive a 300F convert, in case some loser kid keys it etc I was fixing an F tach, a few months back, broken glass front (!!??) pointer deranged and loose, picked up somewhere many years ago . Inside the MOPAR tach part box (replaced? ) I found a a very sad 2 page note (!!) about a guy in Nevada telling “whoever fixes this” that he had parked his letter car at a service station for tune up and brakes , to be done next day, ---overnight someone broke into it and broke every piece of glass and all the dash parts with a hammer. That kind of thing starts when someone with no grey matter at all gets envious of a nice car. It really really made me sad. Note was 30+ years old. Still bothers me. So , say you have 300F convert for 100k, and another one with a 440 / 727 in it for 80. Saved 20 k is how I look at it. But for museum, you need the good original one. To park forever? I read once of an East Coast guy who had done a perfect 300D , he started thinking one day that “someone else is going to drive my car around, not me,(!!!) after all my years of work on it!!” he got in it and went to California. Paint got chipped etc. I get it. Have not done it…yet. From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ryan Hill ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 4:36 PM
To: Rich Barber; Mike Mccandless
Cc: kboonstra@xxxxxxxxxxxx; John Holst; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Gooding Auction Result
There a few things I can say about this with some certainty: - Nobody knows what the next big car craze is going to be (barn finds, restored, modified, vintage, foreign.....)
- Nobody knows if Millennials and future generations will ever develop the interest and see cars, particularly classic cars, the way we see them and want to preserve them in their stock form as many of us have.
- I think that originality and over the top factory accurate restorations are in most cases driven by the quest to achieve the highest value. If the tide changed and owners saw equal or greater value being the new normal for modified (personalized) one-of-a kind vehicles I don't think many would hesitate and build a modified car instead.
- If there is no real demand to own a letter series car in the future, the prices will continue to drop. When prices drop, there may be renewed interest but don't be surprised if those once shining examples of originality end up being modified to the taste of it's owner or to ensure the safety of it's occupants.
- Mike - These cars are already being collected as art, fortunately we're still able to drive them as well. Personally, I'll install an electric motor and a battery before I turn my cars into an artifact.
Ryan Hill
I couldn't disagree more. I'm heavy into the auction scene. When it comes to 300 and forward look era cars, they still draw excellent money. Citing modified cars as going for higher, is in regard to muscle cars. However original restored cars go for a big premium. That's why a 383 original restored cuda went for well over 100k while hemi clones went for half. None of the forward look cars at BJ went under their current real value. The 300C at BJ had quite a few cosmetic issues and still went for 105 all in. If you try to cite the 59 imperial, the car went fro 1/7th the investment. That never happens in forward look original restorations. I'm the younger generation, in my 30's, there are some of us that love these cars and want to continue the tradition. Cars will be collected as art by future generations, not as vehicles to drive. That said, originality will trump modification. My point, exactly. I deeply respect the concept of individuals valuing originality of rare cars but that value is increasingly unlikely to be the best from a financial standpoint--in the short term, at least. I still shudder at slammed, chromed, flamed and supercharged versions of classic letter cars while recognizing that personalizing automobiles has been going on for a long time, is a big business, may allow for a safer, more comfortable relic and is always up to the owner—unless the car can be classified as a National Historic Treasure and receive protection. My loaded 300K ram convertible was shipped to the John T. Fisher dealership in Memphis in January of 1964. I have no access to early ownership documents so am assuming it might have been someone famous such as a country music star (Elvis?), moonshiner or stock-car racer that bought it. From the internet: “In 1968, Fisher ran a very successful car dealership. Elvis Presley was among the customers he sold cars to, but he didn't just cater to the wealthy.” I created a window sticker for the car based on Cuzzin’ Gil’s analysis and it toted up a sticker price of almost $6200. Must have been an interesting person that bought that Roman Red beauty so many years ago. I’m trying hard to keep it stock and am really appreciating its simplicity today as I face a big bucks bill to recalibrate a seat-belt sensor in our Hemi-Rango. Rich Barber Brentwood, CA From: Keith Boonstra [mailto:kboonstra.zeegroup@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 7:13 PM
To: Rich Barber <c300@xxxxxxx>
Cc: John Holst <jholst@xxxxxxxxx>; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Gooding Auction Result My observation from watching several hours of B-J auctions over the past week is that bone-stock originality of all cars - and trucks - from our era is no longer prized as it once was. Modification for driving comfort, safety, and updated appearance actually seemed to carry a considerable premium in the market this time, almost without exception. If it was tastefully done, mods seemed to bother the bidders not at all. Even the TV commentators would often be heard to make note of alterations and comment, "No harm there". Perhaps it was not a correct perception, but it even seemed to me there was a line of demarcation in bid prices that had beautiful as-original cars generally falling under $50K, and nicely done mild-to-wild modifieds typically reaching over that $50K mark - sometimes by a huge amount. Bidders also seemed to be reaching for anything that would set the car on the block in some prominence over its fellow production-line peers. A history of famous name ownership perhaps - such as the Bob Lutz claim of this C300 - or a record of gaining racing laurels as this one again claimed. What commanded the excitement and the dollars of the bidders in the B-J auction was a singularity that made a car stand where its comparatives could not. And sometimes it was a high degree of customization that appealed. The times they are a-changin'. Somebody ought to write a song by that name. When I first became interested in the hobby, true automotive survivorship was the only thing we knew and prized. Then around thirty years ago - maybe more - folks started creating "as new" show cars, even from junk yard relics, right down to the inspection stampings. There was no shame at all - even pride - in having a trailer queen that was not allowed to have its tires soiled. When I first met up with the 300 Cub folks, it honestly surprised me that members relished driving their 300s all over the country - and even beating on them. They said they enjoyed that and fixing them more than keeping them as ready as possible for a concours. That was new to me then, but I have to say its been a lot more fun to treat my old-timers that way - including my C. As long as there is water to clean them up again, and parts and friends to fix them, I'll keep on enjoying the pleasure of hitting the road with these oldies - until the day my kids sneak my license out of my wallet and shred it. So in a way what we are seeing at the auctions is an extension of what we in the 300 Club have long felt about our old Brutes. We want to hit the road and enjoy these old cars while we still can. And like us, other owners are now looking for eye candy, comfort, convenience, and reliability in their old-car driving experience. They will even pay what premium it takes to buy the road-worthiness of a modern drivetrain. The ranks of we old folks who are able, and know how, to fool with these relics of ours are thinning now. If it takes this turn to modernization to preserve the interest of yet another generation in the hobby, before the self-drivers give us the boot from our roads, I'm all for its happening. The alternative can only be internment in somebody's museum until .......what? On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 7:40 PM, 'Rich Barber' c300@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Think what it might have sold for if left completely ’55 stock?? Anyway, this rising tide should lift all boats (and beasts). Rich Barber Brentwood, CA
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