Re: [Chrysler300] UPDATE- Problems with AAJ power disc brakes on a C300

Chrysler began using the Bendix brake system starting with the 1963 model year. 1962 was the last year for the center plane brakes. 1963 and newer included self adjusters. The tapered rear axle that required the hub puller was last used in 1964 models.

Carl Bilter

From: John Lazenby french_fryguy@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 3:19 PM
To: Val Jeffers; Ron Waters; Jack Boyle; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] UPDATE- Problems with AAJ power disc brakes on a C300

Val,

I Googled the term and here is what I came up with:

Definition of self–energizing brake. : a brake that contains within itself some means (as the wrapping action in a band brake) for augmenting the power imparted to it by the pressure on the brake pedal.
Self–energizing Brake - Merriam-Webster

Here is what Google says about Self Adjusting Brakes:

When the brakes are applied, the lever cannot move the adjuster screw because the brake pressure is being used to apply the shoes. The adjuster lever mechanism must store the adjustment and turn the notched wheel when the brake is released

And last the 1961 cars do not have this. I think it started in 1963 or '64.

John L.

From: "Val Jeffers edward1108@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: John Lazenby <french_fryguy@xxxxxxxxx>; Ron Waters <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Jack Boyle <jackcboyle@xxxxxxxxx>; "Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] UPDATE- Problems with AAJ power disc brakes on a C300

Does the term "Self Energized" mean self adjusting as you back up and apply the brakes ? Finally, do the 61 300's have this ?

Thanks,

Val Jeffers

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Tuesday, March 14, 2017, 4:03 PM, John Lazenby french_fryguy@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Ron,

1955 was the last year that uses the tool to my knowledge. Chrysler went to the Center Plane Brake system for 1956 cars and retained that through the early 1960s.

Side note on this: Burt Bouwkamp told me at a meet years ago that the engineers could never achieve the desired result with the Center Plane system and finally went to the self energized type that GM used. I believe that when this final change was made it was no longer necessary to use a puller to remove the rear drums.

John Lazenby

From: "'Ron Waters' ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Jack Boyle <jackcboyle@xxxxxxxxx>; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] UPDATE- Problems with AAJ power disc brakes on a C300

One point that should be mentioned for 1956 and earlier brakes is the use of
the correct AMMCO 1750 brake tool for centering the shoes. This is essential
for assuring that the shoes make total contact with the drums. It may be
helpful to know that early Fords and Mercury brakes need this tool as well.

Many old time brake shops will have this laying around in the back.That is
how I got ahold of one to borrow. They also show up on ebay, but cost
hundreds of $$$.

1957 and later brakes are very different. Comparing apples to oranges.

Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: "'Jack Boyle' jackcboyle@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]"
<Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 2:11 PM
Subject: [Chrysler300] UPDATE- Problems with AAJ power disc brakes on a C300

UPDATE

First of all thank you for all the thoughtful replies, feedback and tips.
The goal of my change is safer and better braking in today's traffic before
I head to Santa Monica on Route 66.

The general consensus is that the new (Chevy) boost unit is defective and/or
underperforming. There is some concern about the lack of vacuum available in
our 300's due to the aggressive cam. We are in the process of evaluating the
vacuum situation and a new booster is in the mail from AJJ. I should add
that Roger at AAJ has been helpful and is helping diagnose and remedy the
situation. I will update the group with our final findings and write up the
conversion process after all the dust settles and everything is working
properly.

Lastly, several members have commented about their cars, other than a '55.
The '55 only K-H unit presents a unique set of conditions and no valid
comparison to later cars. While they are interesting they are not very
helpful to my situation. There were several best practices offered to make
the most of the drums and shoes and those were interesting and helpful. I
will state for comparison that my dad's '57 New Yorker stopped MUCH better
than my "55 ever has in 49 years and 100,000 miles. In my opinion, Chrysler
made a wise decision in going back to a traditional MC in 1956. That said, I
am keeping and identifying all the old parts so they can go with the car
when I can no longer drive it. It would take a good man with a limber back
and neck about a day to put it all back 100% stock.

Thanks again and stay tuned for the final resolution and summary in a few
weeks.

.Jack

Jack Boyle

(913) 544 4650

Enjoying the same C-300 since 1967

IMG_0623 small

From: Jack Boyle [mailto:jackcboyle@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 7:13 PM
To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Problems with AAJ power disc brakes on a C300

I just finished installing a disc set up from AAJ on my C300. There were
some bumps along the way but it's finally complete. Now I am having poor
braking performance. The symptoms are primarily weak braking with both feet
on the pedal - and no lock up, not even a chirp. It's like I don't even
have power brakes. The pedal is as hard as a rock and never even gets close
to the floor.

Roger at AAJ and my local old Mopar expert have offered some suggestions but
before I act on those I wanted to poll the group.

Here is what I have done to date:

1. New DOT 5.1 all around (glycol type with low moisture absorption)

2. Bench bled the MC per instructions

3. Found one line leak and fixed it (defective NEW! fitting)

4. Adjusted the rear drums as close as possible

5. Checked the booster vacuum line for obstructions

6. New stiff factory dia. Vacuum Hose with no leaks

7. Vacuum tests at 14 inches, 15 max. (damn cam)

8. Bled all wheel cyl. 3 times starting with the RR

9. Tried all ranges of the proportioning valve setting, including closed
off completely (best braking is with valve open ¾ turn)

Still a rock hard pedal and VERY marginal braking performance.

Any tips, questions, fixes, etc. welcome.

Thanks .Jack

Jack Boyle

(913) 544 4650

Enjoying the same C-300 since 1967

IMG_0623 small

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Posted by: "Jack Boyle" <jackcboyle@xxxxxxxxx>
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