Re: [Chrysler300] Exhaust Manifold

["John Grady jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Again it may stick ok  here and there and so remain serviceable . .. even with cracks that are there if welded. But if you read any engineering book on this repair there are many caveats . Someone may have great luck with JB weld ! . That being said it is like a lottery ticket  . Braze should be better ; the reason is , if cast-iron is not heated as much at the joint  and is kept hot for a relatively long distance away from the joint, compared to size of joint,  ( only hot enough to melt the braze) it will not move as much in total . All should shrink in unity — and done slowly— including the joint .  Maybe half as much total  as weld movement would be ,locally , even with a very high temp preheat for weld . The high temp just means it forces it to move a lot. And because steel and cast iron move different amounts, from that high temp, you have the problem . Your chances should be much better with braze .  Do you know how it was repaired? But as it held up , cannot knock  that ! Buy that lottery ticket . 
On the J , make a  fixture to hold  crack tight , heat whole area  up almost red and braze ?  Nothing to lose ?  Very valuable pieces. May be specialised braze rod and flux just for this . 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 13 Jan 2018, at 1:39 pm, David Schwandt <finsruskw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> One of my headers on the F was broken years ago in a freak accident involving an underground fuel tank lid in a TN filling station. IIRC, it was   while on the way to Allan and Gloria's meet in VA. Some long time members may recall this as I was the recipient of the Hard Luck award that year.
> It was successfully repaired here locally and has held up ever since w/no issues.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Carl cbilter@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 11:16 AM
> To: John Grady; Fred Grossi
> Cc: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Exhaust Manifold
> 
> Same problem of course with the J/ramK headers.  Huge amount of cast iron in those manifolds; how does one get the whole manifold to a uniform red heat?  I have a J header completely broken in two,  poorly welded in the past,  and so it most likely is useless.  I hear, anecdotally, about so called expert welders in various parts of the country who can fix these problems but as John stated what is the proper technical answer?  I have never gotten a good answer in seven years of research.  Do we have a true metallurgy expert in the club or known to the club?  These parts are scarce. 
> 
> Carl Bilter
> 
> From: John Grady jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 9:07 AM
> To: Fred Grossi
> Cc: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Exhaust Manifold
> 
> 
> I am looking  at a similar / same problem .. heads up to the 300 group ,—— NEVER hang the head pipe or exhaust off the ram manifold while installing the exhaust pipe. The high leverage easily breaks off the head pipe manifold flange at about 45 degrees.  Very easy error to make . Have seen this twice . I am sure it has happened to others. Generally cast iron cannot be welded on a bench .  Unless whole manifold it taken to a uniform red heat The reason is steel of the weld  rod shrinks at a different rate than cast iron and the extremely high stress while cooling due to that will crack the cast iron right next to your new weld . Plus metallurgy changes happen there. Way it is, ignore wild claims. You can get lucky and cracking not terminal . But bad news ,  weak, ready to fall off .. . getting casting really hot and slow cooling ..and  special “ weaker”more malleable “ rods help .but basic idea wrong at core. I have become a fan of gas brazing for this which is not  as hot as melting steel . Braze is very strong if it “takes” which gets into flux , skill etc but again needs very hot pre heat — but  only needs maybe half the peak temp of welding . Welding = melting steel . Half the temp=  half the shrink All this is specialty stuff . Point of post is not to be taken in by “I can do it” without finding out what is being done . Mine has a failed weld to dig out now , makes it 5x harder to fill in resulting gap .  Or cover whole mess with braze ? Do not know. Trying to find a technically proper answer , not an anecdote how “ Jim fixed it “ ... smile .
> Great question . If we can find a guy brazing it with an oven , helps all of us on saving bad castings . 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 12 Jan 2018, at 4:52 pm, Fred Grossi lowtax@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hello Group,
> 
> The right exhaust manifold on my 300F has a crack in it.  I had my mechanic send it off to a welder who is an expert in welding cast iron.  However, I have a feeling that it will not be successful.  Does anybody have an idea as to where I can obtain a replacement?
> 
> Thank you,
> Fred Grossi,
> Arroyo Grande, CA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Carl <cbilter@xxxxxxxxx>
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Posted by: John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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