RE: {Chrysler 300} Re: Ram exhaust manifold repair

"Another answer is use common non ram B block manifold of that era , get rid of heat elbow risers and valve . we don’t drive them daily at 30 degrees or less .
I have done that , a little fussy start if real cold but I think it is ok "

I have a 61 Plymouth Savoy built as a super stock using an F induction system and headers precluding the use of carb heating. There are no chokes either. Cold start and run drama stems mostly from dry carbs, once the bowls fill she lights off willingly and will hold an idle after feathering for about 10 seconds. All this with a Vudu cam. They are not as difficult without heat as imagined.

-----Original Message-----
From: "John Grady" <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2021 9:20am
To: "Keith Langendorfer" <keith_A_Lang@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "chrysler 300 club" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: {Chrysler 300} Re: Ram exhaust manifold repair

hi Keith ,
most of these “ I can fix it” guys do try hard , pick your poison , — but from an engineering sense cast iron simply cannot be welded due to inability of cast iron to withstand tensile stress of cooling coming from two widely different temperatures . Weld temp and the next to the weld temp . Welding ( hot enough to melt iron!) leaves a tensile stress behind ,in the joint , on cooling from melt — but = a kind of “stuck on” repair ( as you have seen)

steel can stand tensile stress ( unlike cast iron it can stretch) welding is perfect — stress left is ok until you stress relieve the part if desired ( by heat cycling ) . Or use as welded , is ok for most things .

Stitch and Weld does not “heat it up” they make a special oven lining shaped to the part , and bring it almost to melt ( as it was originally made ) —- white hot —- then they reach in with specialized gloves and weld it with a cast iron rod . This takes specialized temp measuring stuff to get exactly correct or you will melt the manifold . And usually some machining afterward as if a new casting .
It is cooled slowly probably in sand like a new casting would be . I think was about 900 $ without machining a few years back , — but these really are are impossible to find . Lots of ram intake manifolds out there no exhaust for them .
Another answer is use common non ram B block manifold of that era , get rid of heat elbow risers and valve . we don’t drive them daily at 30 degrees or less .
I have done that , a little fussy start if real cold but I think it is ok , also prevents much larger issue of heat riser valve rusting shut in storage you don’t know it , can melt floor of ram manifold , sends all exhaust under carb if stuck . Remember even with a heat riser it STILL stays cold right after starting for a minute or more . so Has to run cold .....
You cannot see repair from S and W . not even a line . I also filed riser valve holes .

On yours I can see a steel weld bead obviously lumped on top of your casting . That cannot ever work . Kind of stuck on with “ bubble gum” weld .

Many claims , special rods etc . No real basis in reality , imho , but might get lucky with a stuck on .
A Thorough red hot preheat and gas braze probably best if not going top shelf , braze is very strong if you can get it to “ wet “ the cast iron . And far lower temperatures , so less stress left . Skill is critical .

One can sometimes do a “ mechanical “ repair of broken flange , they bore a round hole into manifold , then stick or push a short custom sized or shaped steel pipe (even without bore ) with attached steel flange , then hold that with set screws through casting

I just removed an even cruder version of that off a car , functional , I guess, will not break , pipe just jammed in , bolt on one side holding it , but not exactly concours , and a lot of time to do it = a $ wash compared to a real repair — but sometimes pieces of flange are missing ..

good subject , it happens .

Not breaking it , due to heads up , is best way , however !
john
ps , obvious to look at headers , but these F,G are “ center dump “ manifolds , most later mopar go back over starter , do not fit 62 back ( approx)
Sent from my iPhone not by choice

On 29 Oct 2021, at 11:12 pm, Keith Langendorfer <keith_A_Lang@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

The drivers side manifold on my F broke in a similar way ~20+ years ago (the first time I owned it) and I had it welded by a tech at Paul Russel Automotive in Essex, MA (they do all of Ralph Laurens cars). At some point in the last five years (I’m guessing, based on the appearance of the break surfaces) it broke again but in a different spot which may be even harder to weld. In the attached you can see the first weld (that has held) and where it’s broken now at the forward end of the flange “ear”.

I did a temporary accommodation with washers and double gaskets and I’ve yet to remove the manifold as I was waiting for driving season to end (which it has) and will do that this week. A friend here in Maine said he knows of a welder/machinist that has an oven and can superheat the parts so I’ll bring it to him to see if he can do it.

If that’s a no-go, Club member Mark Love said he had a similar problem and has a craftsman welder in Calgary that fixed his.

Keith
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> On Oct 29, 2021, at 8:31 PM, John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> on ram manifold discussion , good pix by JY , helping me with an F ; this happened before we got the car . See how thin ? heads up !!! do not hang head pipe by flange or try to muscle around for fit while bolted .
>
> Stitch and weld in california can fix but big bucks . They have to heat whole manifold white hot and weld while that hot . They are good !
> Forget anyone who says they can weld or braze cast iron , it ALWAYS leaves residual stress on cooling unless whole manifold is nearly as hot as the weld .
>
> I know — “ I know a guy “ etc always follows, but it always has that tensile stress from cooling around the weld , whether it breaks again is a crap shoot , although gas or oven braze preheat may help your
> luck , as braze is a lower temp right at fusion place .. Braze won’t break but cast iron next to it can crack ..
>
>
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