| Yes , exactly . All it is missing is in Zddp , to my knowledge . The rest is absolutely state of the art . Not sure if widely known , but synthetic oil has all hydrocarbon chains about the same length , an engineered oil . Predictable and stable operation . And over wider temp ranges .Natural oils are a mix of many hydrocarbons , differing lengths of chains . It was developed in a huge corporate effort to improve lube in commercial aircraft and military jet turbines . They had erratic lube problems , mobil 1 type stuff fixed it Premium cost worth every cent ; less so in lawnmower etc Even engines having major dirt and ring seal problems come back after 1-2 k miles . I had one with really low compression in one cylinder filthy inside - took a quart of thick sludge out of the oil pan . 290 hp 325 57 dodge poly . Heads clean , but drains plugged (related long story ) Even a very pronounced skip at idie due to dead cylinder , Smoke out one pipe . 1 k miles later some at 80 mph runs like new no smoke on mobil 1. Did not want to put $ into rebuild . Experiment of 1 , but still … detergents etc clean it out . try it in old “tired “ engine before a rebuild ( unless antifreeze leak like Noel describes) . Better lube better cleaning action may help a lot. John
PS Many failed lifters ~ 10 years ago traced to most cam suppliers suddenly buying very cheap price Chinese and Mexican lifters not heat treated correctly . Big “story “ from them was “ the oil changed” even comp cams said that . My friend an engineer / builder of 100’s of drag engines , says to me , I have multiple 50 gallon drums of oil , same oil drums used for 4 years zero problems , all of a sudden comes a year with 10 failures, I had to eat them. . Same oil. They say “oil” he says you are full of it . He shows me lifters with same part # in box —-obviously different machining on failed ones. He had them tested . Still denial from cam company . Finally proven correct . Supposedly all fixed now. And yes good oil critical but cause of plague that started all this was elsewhere . I went through this with solids on 450” 300D 392 , bought Howard’s at that time supposed to be very high quality with tiny oil hole in face , “ the answer “—- but then felt a little afraid to put them in the new high $ engine . Don V correctly commented , “hey no problem before — You May cause one ! “ So bought comp lifters to go with moderate comp cam . We will see . These days roller type probably are the best deal , but involve conversion kits etc .
Recent HRM test showed roller cam 20 hp more for same cam numbers… more vacuum too . Faster lift ? Lots of little needles in those , but they now seem ok . Sent from my iPhone On Feb 26, 2022, at 11:12 AM, RICK AND DEBBIE CLAPHAM <rixpac@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Has anyone failed lifters due to the newer oils?
From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Robert Kelley <rbtkelley@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 7:55:39 AM
To: 'Noel Hastalis' <cpaviper@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: 'John Grady' <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; 'dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx' <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; 'D.C. Mason' <petergriffinforpresident@xxxxxxxxx>; 'CAROLL RIPLEY' <ripinator@xxxxxxxxxxx>; 'Keith Langendorfer via Chrysler 300 Club International'
<chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; 'Richard Osborne' <reomotorsports1@xxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Engine Oil
Good Morning All;
I too have been a user of VR-1 thinking racing oil with zinc as the way to go. I can confirm Noel's findings. Poor additive packages, only 1400 ppm zinc, should be replaced within 500 miles etc.
I think the key for our engine needs starts with what zinc level is the minimum. I'm hearing from an engineer a minimum of 1700 ppm to 2200 ppm. Amsoil is 1435 ppm. My thinking is synthetic oils like Mobil 1 must have proper foaming, corrosion, and detergent
packages when offering plus 5,000 miles between oil changes. Add a zinc additive to XXXX ppm level using 0W30 or 10W30 weight oil.
Bob
-----------------------------------------
From: "Noel Hastalis"
To: "John Grady"
Cc: "D.C. Mason", "CAROLL RIPLEY", "Keith Langendorfer' via Chrysler 300 Club International", "Richard Osborne"
Sent: Friday February 25 2022 10:59:03PM
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Cams
My F engine's just been rebuilt. Needed a new cam and some other parts. Block was good, bored and honed to .040 from its previous .030 by George Riehl in '06, over 67,000 miles ago.
Spoke with a shop a couple months ago here in suburban Chicago that specializes in building high performance Mopar motors, but it was backed up two years, so didn't use it. In our discussion, I mentioned to the owner I've been running Valvoline VR1 20W50 for
the past several years, because on its higher zinc content. He strongly advised against running racing oil - said it contains no detergents, oxidizes as soon as the container is opened and loses viscosity fairly quickly. He said I should have been running
a Hot Rod oil - Amzoil, Lucas, etc. - that's best for our older motors. I've seen several other comments by fellow Club members using VR1 oil, but are you running 5,000+ miles annually, as I've been doing?
To John Grady's just-emailed comment re viscosity, I'll be running 10W30 in my rebuilt motor.
When I drove my F to our Fall 2017 Lynchburg VA Meet, my oil was foaming out the oil fill cap and the downdraft tube when I pulled into the hotel's parking lot. Fellow members, Ralph Rhees, Jim Rockey, Marshall Goodknight and others diagnosed a slight seepage
of antifreeze into my oil. Since leaving there, I've never again since seen this oil foaming. Now with the rebuild, we found my heads both had cracks in them, and both are now replaced.
Ralph and Jim also recommended that I have my oil analyzed at Blackstone Labs in Ft. Wayne, IN -
Blackstone Laboratories (blackstone-labs.com). I've sent a sample from most of my oil changes since Lynchburg - inexpensive, mailed in small containers provided by Blackstone, and a comprehensive report is emailed within a week or two. As more samples are
analyzed, the report presents the current and previous readings for trending comparative purposes, indicating engine health.
Noel Hastalis
F coupe
On 02/25/2022 5:07 PM John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi , just adding, at some risk ( smile)
On oil , the important thing is to use synthetic like Mobil 1 and zddp .
Thicker oil is for race cars with a controlled limited temp range and they have increased the bearing clearance for it to .005. Our cars are tighter .003 or less. Use what mopar tells you ? 10-30
There is a common misunderstanding , that high oil pressure ( which you get immediately from thicker oil ) is good . Totally incorrect , as that means oil is not flowing freely in close spaces unless the wider .005 clearances are there . You WANT correct
oil pressure, not “ higher “ as that lower pressure tells you the flow is fast and free (as designed ) to cool and lube the bearings . And the cam . The tiny Clearances around the lifter ARE what oils the cam. Put in thick oil, less gets to cam / lifter.
The pump is a positive displacement design —- so always so many cc come out of it, per turn, so when you see high gauge pressure the free flow is by definition restricted and the pressure relief may even be opening. Especially at cold start, thick oil pressing
against a fine perforation free flow filter. Just when you most need oil.
I had a milodon external line oil hi flow setup with two filters on a 480” 426 hemi cuda , one cold morning both oil filter canisters exploded. Lesson taken again.
But wow —a high gauge number !! Like over 80 !
So a lower reading at idle is normal with hot oil.
“This high oil pressure is good, “ stuff comes from many old fords, which often ran 5 psi at idle due to a small pump. Upsetting to motor heads — but they still ran to 100k , as thinking then was there was little bearing loading at idle, especially on
55-57 Y block. Flickering oil light, = “experts “ , mostly the armchair type, will then say don’t buy that car. ( used ).
More technically, the pressure does not lift the rod away, hydrodynamic waves as it spins lift it , takes 1000’s of psi ; the job of oil pump is get the oil into the space, filling it.
Happened to me at 18 , the flickering light, pro rebuilt the 312 engine , ( for nothing) it did the same thing when all was perfect . Lesson taken . All 57 ford idiot lights flicker at idle . Mopar , no . Larger pump ..
As far as brand preferences , all these little boutique oil companies do not own refineries . Mobil 1 invented synthetic and probably makes all of it.. real chemists, real research etc . Buying some , and adding purple dye and a new label , or some
nascar driver recommendation ( driver?) for $ paid is not indicating better oil ( just me ) .
However synthetic really is a lot better .
I saw a test of Mobil 1 in a 350 Camaro analyzed every thousand miles , it went 18000 before any degradation was measurable . 2-3 x better ! So I am ok with 10 k changes like the new cars . I have had two 4.0 jeep daily drivers that passed 300k miles
each using zero oil between 10k changes . And it does not “ leak out easier” .
Whatever !
But again ,— to each his own is always fine ..
John
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 25, 2022, at 5:01 PM, dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
That last link was broken, try this for Duke William's paper on old car engine oil.
https://www.ncrsmac.org/ed/Engine/Engine%20Oil%20%20For%20Vingage%20Corvettes.pdf
-----Original Message-----
From: "D.C. Mason" <petergriffinforpresident@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2022 4:21pm
To: "CAROLL RIPLEY" <ripinator@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "'Keith Langendorfer' via Chrysler 300 Club International" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Richard Osborne" <reomotorsports1@xxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Cams
As long as we’re on the subject of oil, and since I was one of the voices in favor of VR-1, a question hanging out there for me is oil weight preference. Rip I’m not familiar with the Penn (Pennzoil?) but seeing some of the recommended weights make me
wonder. I use 10W-30 VR-1 in all the 361/383/413s. I understand that a heavier weight oil can be problematic….?
Respectfully
dave
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