| Yes, this was John’s point earlier but it seems even the extra reinforcement wouldn’t adequately stiffen these cars to a point where they would not still exhibit more flex than an enclosed car.
Ryan Hill
On May 6, 2023, at 3:01 PM, Larry Bird <larry.b1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
My experience at Belvidere Assembly related to C body convertibles in M.Y. ‘s ‘66 - early ‘70’s : convertibles were built with a unique sill which had an added 3/16’s or 1/4” steel plate formed to the inside of the sill (U shaped) to give the body added strength and reduce flex. 300’s were built at Jefferson Assembly but were a C body so I suspect they used the same type of sill. Sent from my iPhone On May 6, 2023, at 4:27 PM, Ryan Hill <ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Other than my e36 BMW convertible, every convertible I’ve ever put on a lift would noticeably bend enough to either open or close door gaps….sometimes enough that you couldn’t open a door. I recall protocol for some was to unlatch the soft top to not add stress to the convertible top frame and canvas. Hardtops are always far more rigid as others have pointed out. Even T-top cars will fatigue from torsional movement on the bodies over time. I can’t imagine how a hardtop converted to a convertible without considerable reinforcement would ever hold together or drive well over time. On May 6, 2023, at 12:35 PM, Bob Jasinski <rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Even with the extra steel in the rockers, when I raise my G convert on my asymmetrical lift, I can see the gap change at the top of the door. Convertible bodies do not have the rigidity of coupes, when Jay Leno was considering buying a G he told me he wanted a coupe because he was concerned about cowl shake in a convertible. I can’t say I’ve experienced that with my car, but my driving experience with the coupe version is too limited to really know. very important to know , the real convert rear body has a major piece of steel maybe 3/16” or 1/4” thick inside the rocker panel ; it is shaped to fit closely to the rocker contour and welded at the front and back . It acts like “ frame connectors “ sold later in 1970 to stop B and E bodies ( with roof!) from bending under drag racing . The regular F body is just sheetmetal rocker panels , plenty strong with a roof . That reinforcement is needed to resist suspension upward loads say when front wheels hit a poor bridge joint . The roof carries that load in compression by design in a hardtop , like bridge arch . .
So one is truly at risk for the car breaking in half or folding right at the hinge pillar , also why the wedges , as it still bends a bit and door might get jammed in a big bump . I had a 62 Polara 500 convert break completely like that due to rust at front of rocker , so it is real .. The 8403 156603 was listed for sale in Hemmings in 2006 as a "conversion". The problem with these "conversions" are the owners who follow after this sale may not know or care to label the car for what it is. If it is knowingly sold as a factory convertible then one would run afoul of law if it is sold for a profit. One that has the spring wedges in the door jamb would indicate a convertible used as a donor for the whole body instead of a coupe that was converted by cutting off the roof. I remember seeing these kits in Hemmings back in the 1980s. There is more to the convertible body than just wedges in the door jambs so a converted coupe would have some real downsides, beyond the fakery. Not to keep kicking this, but there are a few of these 'made' cars still out there. John Begian, Jim Bielenda and I saw this particular #133898 at the Leake Scottsdale 2020 auction that also sold off the John Staluppi collection that included 300-C s/n -001 that Mike McCandless bought there. But this #133898 was not part of Staluppi's collection and I think was a no sale - photo attached. Two months later this same #133898 sold at Mecum Glendale AZ, hammering for $165,000, for an all-in price of $181,500 with 10% buyer commission. What is interesting to note about #133898 is that its doorjamb does have the door alignment 'wedge' seen on convertibles only. There's another one of these 'pink' 300-F convertibles, wearing vin plate #156603 (not listed in our Club known Fs), here locally in the metro Chicago area, that's part of a fairly sizeable collection. Its owner is not a Club member and I have no idea whether he knows its a made car. It does not have the convertible aligning wedge in each of its doorjambs. This car was displayed at the August 2018 Geneva IL Concours, that featured our Letter Cars. I recruited 17 of the 21 displayed 300s, but was very unpleasantly surprised when I saw this one in the line-up. John et al, Back in his hay day, you could have bought a matching set of 300 fake letter car convertibles (1957-1961) from Dave Glassel for over a million bucks. He advertised them in Hemmings. The Club did its best to advise people but Glassel threatened to sue the Club for interfering with his business. Officials, at the time, were intimidated by the threat of a lawsuit. I know efforts, by the club, continued to assist those who got stuck with the “Aces of Spades.” I think the FBI tried to go after him? He eventually shut down his “Faux 300” shop. Tony Rinaldi
On Thursday, May 4, 2023, 9:16 AM, Joshua C Mishler <tailfinera@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: You are correct. Guys name was David Glassel I think. My grandparents actually visited his shop during that era of him turning out phony convertibles, unbeknownst to them. Somewhere there is even a home video they filmed during that visit. Could be used as evidence in court. LOL! My recollection is there was a bad actor out of Texas who built a bunch of F convertibles out of coupes and New Yorkers. I remember most of them being terra-cotta. Hi Tony, The red F is a different car. It took 1st place in concours in Golden CO. Current owner unknown. Sold by Tom Gerrard or his estate at Mecum. In May of 2018, the Mecum Indy auction had a terracotta 300-F convertible go for $291,500. Also a “pink” one go for $181,500.
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