Re: {Chrysler 300} Transmission Lubrication

When you watch John Kelly's video on Mopar automatic transmission fluid you will understand why Don Verity recommends Dexron.

Chrysler automatics were originally designed to use GM Type A. Later type A suffix A but always pretty much the same as GM fluids including Dexron when it arrived for 67.

All Dexron is backwards compatible. The search for whale oil and 60 year old fluid types is a waste of time and energy.

-----Original Message-----
From: "John Nowosacki" <jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 8:10am
To: "Henry Schleimer" <henry.schleimer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "dplotkin" <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "James Douglas" <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Chrysler 300 List Server" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Transmission Lubrication

I have no way to definitively prove it, but since I am the third owner of my G convertible, which I bought in the 90's with only 39K miles on it, I believe it to be original and never rebuilt. I'm now approaching 80K on the car, and it only has one problem that I will now investigate a bit further. It is the 'leak down' issue of the converter. If I use the car every 4 or 5 days, there are no leaks, but if days turn into weeks, I need to keep a pan underneath. I was always pretty sure it was the fluid level coming up high enough to leak out of the kickdown shaft, since there is no fluid seal there, but the referenced article by George says it never gets up that high, even with leakdown. I guess I'll have to take a closer look at my shift cable housing. It does not leak during driving or while sitting for a few days afterwards. The magic number is around 5 days or so. Through my own ignorance, I'm pretty sure I have never purchased a drop of Type F (thinking F stands for Ford), so for the last 25+ years I've been topping off with Dex II and then Dex III when it became available. The car has always shifted well, and firmly. When I take off from a start with half throttle or more, I get a nice 'chirp' of rubber on the 1-2 upshift, and a crisp, but not violent 2-3 upshift. I never have to mash the pedal into the carpet enough for a downshift, as the never rebuilt 413 and crossrams provide more than enough torque to climb hills or pass on the highway (as designed). The car seems to accelerate just as fast from 60 to 90 as it does from 0-30. It is the only Mopar I have ever owned (and there have been many) that has this drain back leakage issue. (It figures it only happens on my all time favorite).

It seems like only a few years ago that I had a cool 30-something year old car. I never anticipated being the owner of a car that was over 60 years old. When I bought my first G coupe back in the mid 80's, a 60 year old car would have been a Model T, which I had no interest in because it was 'way too old'. Funny how that works. I still have fond memories of driving from MA to NJ to a club event held at the Raceway Park drag strip in Englishtown, making as many runs down the track as time would allow, and then driving back to MA. No cell phone, no AAA, no trailer- no need! What could possibly go wrong? Now that I think about it, I believe I had to change the gaskets on the cast iron elbows shortly after that escapade. Not a big deal thanks to Mr. Merritt.

On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 12:06 AM Henry Schleimer <henry.schleimer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I have followed the advice in the Club Tech Bulletin https://www.chrysler300club.com/tech/geotrans/Lettercartrans.html which says Chrysler recommended Type A be replaced by Type F. Do not use Dexron. Type F is available and cheap. Has anyone had failures using Type F? If not, why keep asking the same question over and over again?

Henry

From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of dplotkin
Sent: Wednesday, 7 June 2023 5:46 AM
To: James Douglas; Chrysler 300 List Server (chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} Transmission Lubrication

James, one thing that has always bothered me about the subject of what transmission fluid should be used in 60-year-old automatics that have been rebuilt at least once and probably more than once since they were assembled originally at the factory with original composition clutch facings and so forth.

My understanding is that the clutch facings and parts that come in the transmission rebuild kits we buy aren't the same as that used when these Transmissions were assembled in the factory and when a fluid was specified to work with the friction surfaces in these transmissions.

I believe that's why Don and other transmission experts will tell you to use Dexron because it works in just about everything that has been rebuilt. What inside these Transmissions today do you think is actually sensitive to fluid type? I'm not trying to be a wise guy either expiring minds want to know.

Danny Plotkin

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------

From: 'James Douglas' via Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Date: 6/6/23 12:47 PM (GMT-05:00)

To: "Chrysler 300 List Server (chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Subject: {Chrysler 300} Transmission Lubrication

I have been following the subject of lubrication in Torqueflites.

What I would like to understand the science behind the various views on the subject. Reviewing the archives, I do see some strong opinions on the subject. But, I have yet to read anything that is backed up by some science one way or the other.

If anyone has a well-documented case for the use of a particular transmission fluid, I would like to read it.

I can mention that I wrote an email to several lubrication manufacturers and asked them what is their recommendation for a replacement for a “Type A”, “Suffix A” transmission fluid. Two have responded so far:

1. Exxon-Mobil Support Engineering: “Our Mobil Multi Vehicle ATF is suitable for Suffix A requirement”.

2. AMSOIL Technical Support: “our Signature Series Multi Vehicle Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid, product code ATF, as a substitute for a Type A transmission fluid.”

What I would like to know is what is the science behind recommendations to the contrary.

I can tell you I spent a couple of years off and on running down the proper fluid, backed by period articles, SAE papers, and talks with the last vestiges of Gyrol on Fluid Drives. It completely contradicted all the old wife’s tales that are still out there on that subject. I wrote an extensive technical paper on that. I have yet to see anything in-depth on the subject of ATF in older torqueflites.

So, for now, I do not have anything to hang my hat on, one way or the other on the subject.

Anyone who can enlighten me, please do.

James

--
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/CY5PR19MB6171C524CEDA941C1FCA38069352A%40CY5PR19MB6171.namprd19.prod.outlook.com.

--
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/647f8d0c.050a0220.f681b.9312SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING%40gmr-mx.google.com.

--
For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/64801038.050a0220.65347.7d7aSMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN%40gmr-mx.google.com.