I second John’s assessment!
You fellas with multiple old cars would do well to put a DVM across your battery, engine running at high idle. If you have aftermarket regulators as most of us now do you may be very surprised what you find. The electronic Mopar black box regulator (poses as an original) made by Transpo charges 15 volts at idle and 17 volts at speed, brand new out of the box. Tried a second one, exact same thing. The USA made mechanical Delco replacement does almost the same thing. It charges at 14.5 at idle and almost 16 volts under way. My guess is they are built this way to avoid returns. Hey, it charges! No matter that it spits water or bubbles gel. My 3 element regulators on generators seem to charge at a proper rate. But alternator regulators from the aftermarket are often battery killers. Drive with the lights on?
Danny Plotkin
From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Grady
Sent: Monday, April 8, 2024 9:04 PM
To: RICK AND DEBBIE CLAPHAM <rixpac@xxxxxxx>
Cc: James Douglas <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>; Chrysler 300 List Server (chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Re: Generators and alternators and batteries
hi James ,
What you describes has a truly rational answer , and i am surprised no one has experienced ht more often
In essence a fully charted battery is still charged AFTER it is full , due to high settings in early mechanical VR set points . very coincidental i got into 4 different 6 v regulators in past month , JY has a 6v citroen about 1950 , asked for some advice , i ended up with two regulators his fellow in Canada said were no good ( i was curious) , and i am into a 6v 50 stude .
Citroen regulator is odd in that it has only two relays ,,tracing it out they wind the current reducing function onto the VR regulator so they are additive (!)) saves a relay but VR set point will drop with heavy current . . one can argue that is correct logic , just odd.
The other one was totally wrung design ( the auto light vs delco field connection reversal)
And I had the stude pull off .
So i set up to digitally measure all 3 as part of sleuthing .
ALL three did not open the VR contact until
7.9 or 8 v . WAY too high .
That is over 15 v on 12 v base yet i see 15 in some 50’s FSM
Why is this ? The full AH rating requires a “ saturation charge “ to
make advertised AH numbers . This is BS and sells batteries every three years . on open l vented batteries you turn water into gas ,” = check your battery levels every 1000 miles“ stuff . Woe to you if you did not .
Dead cells shorts etc and lots of water ensures impurities and new battery . Much better to stop at 13,8 no water made , but battery will
only store 85% of rated AH but will
last forever . I find this on Japanese cars thought defective charging untill I learned more . Why toyota batteries last 8 years .
Now enter sealed batteries of all kinds . Zero tolerance for overcharge , gas cannot get out . Constant overcharge kills them . Maintainers too . Put on fur a few days every few months .
So despite prior warnings to stay out of VR , with 3 digit instruments I reset all three to 7 v . Or 14 .
Your cure was because modern VR are set lower now for
sealed batteries , your older VR was grossly overcharging them . period .
And replacements are set up high too probably . !
more than you might have wanted to know.. but true!
On Apr 8, 2024, at 10:14 AM, RICK AND DEBBIE CLAPHAM <rixpac@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Wow, good to know. I have known the battery controls the voltage regulation for decades. I must have been lucky with my Optima batteries, had one last 22 years. Originally manufactured by Gates, we would buy blems for $20 $30. Our 67 Barracuda was the old mechanical regulator. The battery that lasted 22 years was in the Barracuda. And later my parents mini van. Voyager model. I replaced it finally with another Optima.
Since the subject has come up, a word of caution on the subject.
In the early 2000’s when we purchased the 1947 Desoto and started using it as our daily driver, I got rid of the regular battery and switched to an Optima 6V.
We started to have problems in the charging system. We would get a slow, over a month or so, increase in AMP draw showing up on the AMP gauge. It would get to the point where I was running around trying to figure out where the power was going. It would also cause a generator to burn up.
We changed generators and alternators. We also killed batteries. Nothing stopped the problem.
I will not bore you with the entire story of all the detail work we tried to run the issue down.
This is before Optima was sold. Their engineers sent me a couple of batteries and had me ship the old ones directly to them. What we figured out was going on was that since the resistance in an Optima battery is lower than a lead acid battery, the mechanical regulators would think they were not fully charged. So, they would supply a slow but steady trickle overcharge to the battery causing the plates to melt and then they short which causes a current draw that one sees on the AMP gauge and can kill the alternator as well.
Now is the interesting part. On cars that sit a lot, the natural discharge rate will drain the battery then one drives it, and it charges it back to “normal” then it gets parked and drains back down. That is why people who do not use their cars all the time may not see the issue. Use it daily and it can happen. Use a battery tender and it can happen.
Now this problem can show up on SOME but not all mechanical generators. No real way to tell which ones. Internally regulated alternators do not exhibit the issues, nor do digital external regulators.
I switched to an internal regulated alternator and the problem never came back. Interesting in that about a year later there was an article in one of my flying magazines about this same issues. A lot of people with vintage aircraft were switching over at that time to sealed batteries and they had old mechanical voltage regulators and had issues. They traced the same problem down as I did, and the FAA issued a directive on the subject. Use a sealed battery and you must switch to a digital regulator.
So, if any of you with generators or alternators with mechanical regulators experience anything odd on the charging system and are using a sealed battery, keep the above in mind.
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