--Carl,you know looking at those , one is struck by how easy it would be to make that general shape and outside dimension “ envelope.” in SS by a header or exhaust fab guy .The ones on Dan’s savoy ( and TTI) carry current thinking about equal length , tuning etc but at the end of the day at least 85% of any gains are from getting rid of restrictive flow and sharp bends . Like mopar did with these .Tuning is rpm specific too , so adding a lot of elbows and bends in pursuit of tuning may end you up worse over a rpm range than just big smooth flows that join each other like these manifolds do . Especially in non race wide rpm situations And save 20 lbs with more clear space inside .I wish we had such a resource, to do that . Maybe one on those custom exhaust places .Or TTIDo you know any reason why they ran cast iron so long after last pipe joins?you would think the flange would be right there ?jgOn Jul 15, 2024, at 12:51 PM, Carl Bilter <cbilter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:John, actually, 60-61 short ram water heated headers were a different casting than J/K! See this and scroll down the page to see photos of the headers from Bud Faubel's 400HP Daytona G. And compare to J/K header photos on same page. Right side quite different:Makes no sense to start from scratch - except - I bet that the 60-61 headers won't fit the SWB J/K or '62 SWB, left side won't clear torsion bar? 60-61 headers "impossible" to find.J/K headers will fit F/G - Dave Schwandt has had J/K headers on his F for years, others as well.Here is a photo of BIg Red '62 300 Sport 405HP short ram at Macungie in 2015. download and blow up photo you'll see the water heated rams. Based on the right side header this car had J/K rams.Makes sense as it is a SWB car. Didn't think about that before, 62 405hp was a dealer OTC package only as I understand. Must have been first use of J/K headers due to SWB??Carl<IMG_5118.JPG>------ Original Message ------From "John Grady" <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To "Dan Plotkin" <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>Cc "chrysler 300 club" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>Date 7/15/2024 9:43:57 AMSubject Re: {Chrysler 300} 300J/300K ram heat riser pipes--makes one immediately think maybe j/k exhaust is a far easier trip , on F /G405 F had something like J/K but apparently no exhaust heat , just water .Either none or water works for me , J/K probably fits F , blank off heat , 405 F exhaust so rare I am sure no one has seen j/k exhaust next to it , to see what changed . “ probably” just the exhaust heat aspect , if they had 405 casting patterns already ,from 1960 , would not start from scratch for only a very few cars .Similarly max HP 61/62 with short rams and big exhaust , we know little detail of them . I have a 62 405 short ram , has heat , might be J K exhaust ; don’t know what PO did .Put together in early 90’s I think . Manifold visually looks like J ( from memory ) . I wonder what that Big Red factory 405 62 had for exhaust ? vaguely remember water heat on that ? but did not pay attention to exhaustYou have saved me a huge hassle with this post , on the headers , thank you . You have amazing patience and skill to do that ! Although plymouth is swb … may not be same issues everywherenice work …FYI , I put a 392 in F , in process , ( long process— as in move master cylinder to other side of column) we used those after market block hugger stainless headers ( nice pieces , cheap on ebay ) but decided to go under steering ,under the frame all the way , as dump is straight down, right near tie rod . No way to fit 90 bend there above steering —- I see you are on top . i have done that before ( exhaust under frame ) to get large pipes , often wonder about the factory fixation of getting pipes way up higher than rear axle ., that is what sets real ground clearance .I wonder about 68-9 TNT 440 HP / six pack exhaust too , they are now reproduced , but unsure where outlet is / works in 300 .Huge step upover stock 300 exhaust , really lame log manifoldEver notice Toyotas (? Camry) going down the road — rear exhaust pipe much lower than suspension , that is extreme , sagged or in wrong ?Now who has a J/ K exhaust pair ?right …trade something good, or $On Jul 15, 2024, at 10:00 AM, Dan Plotkin <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:John-
This is my 61 Savoy. We used off the shelf C body headers. We cut them up into many pieces and welded them back together to fit. It was a lot of work. It left us with no way to route the pushbutton shift cable to the transmission given the headers. So we terminated a B&M shift cable at a bracket, transitioned to a rod to pass in-between the header tubes that connects to the 727 with modified shift spring. As to manifold brackets I didn’t want to chance stressing the mounting points on the RAMS, it may not need it but it was not difficult to do.
Danny Plotkin
From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Grady
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2024 8:29 AM
To: dplotkin <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: chrysler 300 club <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} 300J/300K ram heat riser pipes
hi Dan
i have a plan like that on an F —I contacted TTI their headers are listed for 62 up C body ( odd way to put it) but they say they have no experience with 60-61 “ don’t know “ “ never did it”
To me , identical side space , 60-61 larger if anything lengthwise , changes there are quite involved and you have to think about it , as engine is in same place re body firewall , ( which is the same ) yet some ?4” less wheelbase so control arms have to be moved back on stub frame . That tightens up header clearance a lot at control arm . . And steering box . There also may be some kind of major change in steering box mount to frame , 60-61 mount to side of frame in lwb at least ,? swb?
but somewhere around 62 or 63 up K frame is used too .
Anyone know when this happened ? after market steering guys ( Borgeson) do not support 61 back , but seem to support 62 ? Talking to them went no where
i would like to put TTI headers listed for 62 in a 60 , unless there is another path ?
I do not think end of ram manifolds need any support . look at size of that casting many bolts to head . Have never seen one break . . It is thicker metal than 727 torque flite case ., Function of heat tubes is heat . Water cooled ones ( 405 ) did not have support ? not sure of that though . Can’t hurt but not needed imho .
Did you use commercial headers ? stock ram log manifold is truly restrictive , why 405 J K and max wedge have what they have . … has to be 20-25 hp better
Thanks,
John
On Jul 15, 2024, at 8:00 AM, dplotkin <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Nick, if you look carefully at the attached photo you will see an exhaust clamp that I refabricated to use as a support for the Ram manifold. I built custom headers for this car so I had a similar issue.
Danny Plotkin
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Nick Taylor <nicksgaragesd@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 7/15/24 12:14 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: {Chrysler 300} 300J/300K ram heat riser pipes
Bit by bit, I'm getting the parts back for my ram 300K. A few days ago, the previous owner agreed to sell me the original engine. No ram parts though but there is still hope.
One thing I didn't see in the parts he got with the car originally were the heat riser pipes that go from the exhaust headers to the intakes. I see that they aren't available although a club member had them made in the past. A new friend with a 300J needs them as well.
If you can't get them, do you just block off the ports and do without? I know they also provide some support for the intake manifolds so that might not be a viable option. I contacted a couple exhaust places and they can't try to make them without examples. The bending templates they use to make exhaust systems don't exist for the heat risers.
Thanks for any feedback.
Nick
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