Re[2]: {Chrysler 300} Testing Power Window Switches

Ray you may be right ! we both are , we just do not know what year it changed , and my post was about pre 62 switches . I do not know about later cars
Are 65 switches still 3 pin? must be relays if they are?
we are on same page someone may know when motor changed . Important really , it later ones fit early regulator , i can make relay adapter to do that
Whole new world as half of the early two field types are junk if you open them . No way to fix
And stored outside ,junkyard , any that point up are getting wet , also junk .
Maybe Carl or someone else knows if/ when this motor changed ?
And if the new one mechanically fits old regulators ? If so , new doors open !

On Jul 16, 2024, at 4:43 PM, Ray Jones <1970hurst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Thanks John.
My experience is '65and later. Again, as I remember, on the bench, power to one wire and ground to the other runs the motor one way and just switch power/ground and it runs the other way. As memory serves, on the bench, grounding the motor housing and powering one wire does nothing.
If I have that wrong, I'm sorry. You are the expert on all things electric. I enjoy your posts about theory and usage and such.
As a teen, I was the guy who could fix the few power windows around. I learned on my 1949 and 1951 Mercury convertibles. Also had electric door locks using starter solenoids an micro switches behind the 1/4 panels.
Ray

On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 3:44 PM John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
hi Ray , the earlier ones are grounded , for sure.. we don’t want to cause confusion there . Most of the ones I am talking of ( all I have ever seen ) have two wires , one up one down . That only needs a 3 pin switch . The wires are usually brown and green . it works because the two wires go to two fields , independent , only one side is on at a time . That cutstorque in half vs a usual DC motor where both fields are on ,
but in those (or permanent magnet) you have to reverse + and - that takes a six pin switch for each motor or a relay with 6 pins to reverse the connections between + 12 and ground .
and yes , all later cars are that reversing way . I do not know how far into 60’s chrysler carried the up down type 2 field but I thought a long time . My personal experience ends in 62 , on motors , but for sure early ones are grounded between the two fields . If you power both leads it will do nothing
You ground the frame then put 12 on one or other .
jg

On Jul 16, 2024, at 2:50 PM, Ray Jones <1970hurst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Just a heads up for the new folks.
The key here is Use'em or lose'em.
The trouble I found mostly inside the switches is corroded contacts. I've fixed some with spraying Electrical cleaner into the switches and rocking them back and forth a gazillion times. It helped many times. Saved opening them up. If you do, open them on a bench with a clean towel to keep the little springs from disappearing into the floor somewhere. Easy to work on and once repaired the seem to last forever.
Note the motors are not grounded. 2 wires, + in one and - in the other and the motor goes up. reverse the current flow and the motor goes down.

These motor assemblies were used for many years and all across the range of cars.
IIRC my '79 L'il Red Express had the same window motors that my "65 300 L had.
Usually, the left front is the same motor assembly as the Right rear, and the Right front is the same as the Left rear.

Lastly, to remove the motor, 2 bolts are accessible, but 1 is behind the inner door webbing. I drilled a 1" hole in the inner door webbing right over the 3rd bolt and the motor comes right out. A chunk of wood inside the door to keep the window assembly from coming down on your vintage arm. Really won't happen, but safety first.

It's been 15+ years since I did most of this work, But this is what this old mind remembers!
Ray

On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 1:11 PM <mplindahl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks for all the tips on testing power window switches. Everyone was very helpful!

From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of John Grady
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2024 9:15 AM
To: mplindahl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Chrysler list server <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Testing Power Window Switches - 1963 Chrysler

Hi , on switches in general , 57 up ,
an ohmmeter from central pin to each side will show continuity , that is 60% of it .
But inside they often burn at contacts to the point of mechanically getting out of order or becoming intermittent . Usually the driver window position . Also the
push on small loop wire connections a little flimsy , bad connections
I have taken apart maybe 20 -30 of them scrounging parts from seldom used positions to fix bad front ones
You can open but casting often breaks ,don’t overdo the opening bend — but you can epoxy back in . And add a new bend place , but fragile
Some cases will be tossed anyway for parts So save ugly ones .
Two things go wrong , there are two little steel springs — they get rusty if water hits switches . Then toggle is loose and floppy ., Intermittent too .Csn stick on Clean and oil
And there is a brass flat spring in some of them in addition , —- if contacts burn it can get out of position and hang things up .
Point of all this is hard to tell what you really have without opening , but if from back of car and the low ohms scale is ok , ( under 1 ohm) probably good , if floppy toggle or intermittent etc probably hurt inside .
There are two styles of toggle top , but seem to fit ok , but that complicates a group of 4
Right answer is add relays but you would need two per motor , and a new power lead to each place — thought about it . Kit might be 100 -125 per window , any interest ?
Also
looked at adapting later PM motors by Bosch used in 70’s mopars , jeeps etc
pinion pitch is slightly different ( of course ) mesh won’t wotk so dropped it . Can do but $ . They would need relay too as polarity reverses in those .
Our motors are often on edge , scored shafts by rust inside bearing at bottom , and bottom end bearing area in general becoming a ball of rust .. Cant fix that, tried several ways . I have never seen one needing “ rewinding” problem is brush holder and bottom bearing area mechanically destroyed by water
Critical to seal that plastic water thrower disc to shaft with WS cement and or use valve stem seal . Especially those that face up
I drill an 060 hole now in center of back cover so if water gets in it will get out . Do not have to open it — put one drop of oil in too . not more than, if it gets in brushes it ruins it
Drill chips are behind bearing area
jkg
On Jul 16, 2024, at 9:31 AM, mplindahl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

Hello All,

Is there an easy way to check the working condition of 4-way and 1-way PW switches that are not mounted to the car? I don’t feel like taking apart the door panels.

I have quite a few that I would like to test and eventually sell. I assume a 12 volt battery and an extra power window motor or some other way with a volt meter? Thank you.

Regards,
Mark
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Re[2]: {Chrysler 300} Testing Power Window Switches - 1963 Chrysler