RE: 400 stroker, die deutsche gehiorn and not too sublte

[Don_Dabbs@xxxxxxx]

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Better off leaving this to the crank people,,,cheaper too.

-----Original Message-----
From: ntolerance [mailto:ntolerance@xxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:42 PM
To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: 400 stroker, die deutsche gehiorn and not too sublte


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Out of sheer curiosity, what sort of procedure is used to weld up a 
crank? What type of welding? What type of rod/wire material?

Dont get me wrong, I assume that you wont be able to do this with the 
$220 Home Depot/Lincoln Buzz box. I am just curious as to how it is 
done. Is is Tig, Arc, Heli-Arc or MIG? Is the crank hardened after 
welding/grinding? Nitrided?

Since I have a complete 383 and a 400 block, all I would need are the 
400 pistons and rings, and I could use all the items i already have for 
the 383 on the 400. (save for the camshaft). I have acess to a good 
welder and Tig, Arc and Mig welding equipment. (no Heli-arc)

Sounds ALOT than a cast crank 451.

Doc.
Don Dulmage wrote:
> 
> 
> first rod stroke ratios.
>  While they are good with a 383 400 being one of the best they are not

>  significant at the engine speeds most of us can afford. (under 6500
RPM)
> For comparison look at the BB chevy with a rod length of the 340 Dodge

> and a 4 inch stroke. it does not seem to be suffering too much
although 
> I agree it would be better with a longer rod. (But for heavens sake
dont 
> tell them!)
> Secondly , in my experience i have seen 400 440 combos with the 440
rod 
> die of rod failure. I have never seen a rod failure with the 383 400
rod 
> . I asssume rightly or wrongly that the rod is stronger and more
stable 
> because it has the same cross section but it is shorter. Being shorter

> it is also lighter. 
> So now lets look at the 400  stroker deally.
> Low buck senario.
> We take a 400 block and bore it 030.
> we buy the cheapy  pistons from Momma mopar for 23 bucks each 
> We buy a good quality  moly ring set
> We resize the rods and put in the good bolts. 
> new cam bearings  , a timing gear  and chain set 
> A Momma mopar race gasket set  and a windage tray if we dont have one
> We get a hi volume oil pump  and extend the pick up or drill and tap
for 
> the hemi pick up and use the hemi pan. 
> We buy a good hydraulic cam  of 525 lift and 253 duration. (say comp
305 
> H or the mopar 533 lift hydraulic and matching lifters(you all know
what 
> I would use so i wont say ot this time)  
> We reverse hang the pistons . 
> Next we get a 383 crank  and have a welded storker made (3.53") for 
> about $350 Canadian (300 US ) normally we would get the crank ground 
> anyway so our EXTRA expense on this engine is only $150 to $200 over 
> stock costs.
> Everything else fits perfect. We now have a 10 to 1 400  but it has
426 
> cubes. 
> We do up a set of heads (214/181 pocket ported and ca 80 ccs) or buy a

> set of 452s already done from arrowhead or compuflow. You can fly cut 
> the pistons  yourself if your brave using an old head and cutters made

> from oversize valves. Sending them out though is not overly expensive 
> and is recommended. (Crude as it may sound this is a totally accurate 
> and fool proof method to get the valve reliefs exactly in the right
spot 
> and these cutters always cut exactly the same depth everytime. They
only 
> need an "ebrow" to give the proper clearance)
> We bolt it together with a old Holley Street Dominator or a Perfomer
RPM 
>  and a 850 Dp or equivalent.
> Dump it in the car with a set of 430s and 29.5 X9 slicks and a good 
> converter and hang on 
> This is a cheap engine and it will make 500 Hp. If experience teaches
us 
> anything it will last a long long time. Piston speeds are low 
> comparatively speaking  because of the shorter stroke. We did not need

> to buy any exoctic parts . 
> We could and have on occasion lightened the pistons  while balancing
but 
> that was because we felt like it and had the facilities.  Any one with
a 
> drill press and a bit of care and a postage scale could do the same. 
> taint rocket science. 
> The smaller cubes demand less of the heads so the heads can feed them 
> better and the volumetric efficiency of the engine is higher than say
a 
> 440 451 or bigger would be.  
> Piston speed is less than a 440 crank would be and cost is really low.

> TRW makes a forged replacement version (about $350 per set)for those
who 
> desire it and the added strength but i will tell you right up front
this 
> engine wont fail from broken pistons even with the stockers.
> Wagers current cheapie 400  is running factory cast pistons(440 +030) 
> and is in its 3rd year of hard racing. He tells me it sees 7000 
> regularily. 
> When was the last time you pulled a 383 , 400 , or 440 part and found
a 
> broken piston? 
> I have pulled hundreds apart in my career and could count on my
fingers 
> maybe even on one hand the number of broken ones i have seen. 
> Any piston dsigned to be driven for 100,000 miles plus in a high 
> performance car can stand a fair amount of punishment. 
> Still I to would lean towards the forged version if it was my engine
or 
> a customers. I just mention the other to show what can be done safely
in 
> the bucks down mode.  
> So for a 150 bucks more than a normal good 400 Hi perf build you could

> have 500 hp  race motor. 
> me I think that is awsome and should put an end to that constant
whining 
> noise i have heard my whole life "the small block chevy is the
cheapest 
> engine to get HP out of" I almost puke everytime i hear that!
> 
> Pistons in the 400 are normally 075" down the hole. Stroking the crank

> from 3.38 to 3.53 gives  .150" increase in stroke with 1/2 being up
and 
> 1/2 being down  so the pistons come flush or at .000 at tdc (in a 
> blueprinted block and very close in a production piece) and go .075 
> further down at BDC .
>  
> If you must have the high doller 451 version go for it but this will 
> work and the cost will be considerably less.  Power may not be all
that 
> different although this 400/426 will rpm slightly higher for the same 
> power. 426  is also a beautiful number and has been known to cause the

> odd bowtie and blueoval heart to miss a beat at the mere sound of it. 
> I just present this as an interesting inexpensive alternative .
> Convertors.
> I tried 6 before i finally realized frankks were far superior. There
may 
> be others but here is what i tried. 
> firebal 10 "
> markham 10"
> Ati 10"
> 069 J
> B&M race convertor
> Franks was almost 4 tenths quicker 3 miles per hour faster  and my 
> finishline rpm was almst 500 less despite the faster MPh. 
> What more can I say? I dont see how it could be any plainer and I
payed 
> the same he charged me for several of the bummers .
> Have since seen many gain  huge gains with his product in other's cars

> and i run a 3800 of his in my max wedge which by the way drives
exactly 
> like a stock conveter until I foot brake it. Most people are amazed
that 
> it doesnt have that soggy elastic band feeling when driving. Very 
> efficient and very effective converter
> Subtle? i have never been accused of that.
> Anyway. I offer these ideas only to help fellow mopar racers go faster

> on less gold. Not everyone will see it this way . Some are more 
> comfortable spending huge bucks  on the belief the more it costs the 
> better it is. That is fine too as most of them can afford it that way.

> Do I want to keep my secrets to myself (ie re crank etc)? No not 
> anymore. 
> My main career is finished. It was fun and rewarding. It is time to
play 
> and enjoy life. Beside i get  a lot of enjoyment from letters like
greg 
> bolts or the guy with the Old reliable in the Duster on the pacific 
> coast i shared with some of you a while ago or from watching Wager or 
> one of the other motors i put together for someone 8 or ten years ago 
> still finish regularily in the top ten or top five at the local track 
> and still win the whole enchillada now and then. 
> So if you are thinking Don wont or didn't tell us all, you're wrong!
> Don
> Author of
> Return to Deutschland (True Adventure)
> Old Reliable (Mopar)
> http://stores.ebay.ca/Don-Dulmage-Enterprises
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 

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Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!

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