RE: Headers and....... Well, just headers this time around

[Nico Over <nover@xxxxxxxx>]

Further to my last I meant to say that the Schumachers fit fine on a B Block 4
speed combo with no problems. 
Nico Over
Va. Beach, Va.

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:37:13 -0500, Nico Over wrote
> I have a set of Schumachers on my 64 SF and concur will all Steve 
> pointed out as to fitment etc, except they work fine on B block 
> (Mine is a 451) and no mods were necessary what so ever. Nico Over 
> Va. Beach, Va 1964 Sport Fury 451/4 speed 1963 Dodge 330 440/727 
> 1963 Dodge 440 wagon Poly
> 
> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:38:29 -0500, Steven Charette wrote
> > One other note, for dedicated high HP race cars Hooker still makes 
> > the excellent p/n 5230 adjustable primary header for the '62-'65 
> > cars. Jegs lists them for $792 in black or $1064 in ceramic 
> > (remember the old saw - "speed costs money, how fast can you afford 
> > to go?").
> > 
> > SC
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Steven Charette [mailto:stevec@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
> > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 10:30 AM
> > To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: Headers and....... Well, just headers this time around
> > 
> > I'll start with disclosure - I work closely with Schumacher but can give
> > first-hand facts as opposed to opinion.
> > 
> > There are differences in the relationships of the engine and chassis 
> > from '62-'65 and '66-'72.  A few header manufacturers realize the 
> > difference and have designed the headers accordingly, and the 
> > remainder simply don't consider the '65 and earlier offerings.  Some 
> > headers listed as '66-later will indeed fit the '62-'65 cars, so the 
> > best source of information will be the folks on this list.
> > 
> > I can vouch for the fit of the Schumacher headers on the '62-'65 
> > cars as I have had my hand in a few installations.  The headers are 
> > a tri-y design, with 1 5/8" primary into 2" y's, then a 2 1/2" 
> > collector.  Fitment is excellent, with ample room to change plugs 
> > and not burn wires (straight or angle plugs) and the ability to 
> > change the starter without removing the headers (stock length 
> > starter or mini, not the longer 2hp variety).  No clearance issues 
> > with power steering, brakes, A/C, etc.  The tubes are 14 gauge steel 
> > and are oriented so that you can use a socket to torque the 3/8" 
> > laser-cut header flange to the head to ensure good sealing.  The thicker
> > tubing also helps damp the "ticky-tick" sound of cheap headers. 
> > Retention of the studs is recommended in lieu of header bolts, and simplifies
> > installation.  Basically you jack the motor up and drop 'em in.
> > 
> > An important note is that these headers are designed for automatic
> > transmission use - they must be modified for stick use.  Also bear 
> > in mind that many aftermarket heads position the exhaust ports 
> > differently which can influence clearance and fit.  One other 
> > consideration is that these mass-produced cars have production 
> > tolerances that are exacerbated by being beaten up and down the 
> > roads for 50 years or the cars have been disassembled and 
> > reassembled.  A header that fits perfectly on one car and engine 
> > combination may not fit another identical model car and engine combination
> > without modification or adjustment.
> > 
> > The Schumacher header was designed primarily for street use, or as an
> > upgrade to HP manifolds.  Many people snub their nose at the 1 5/8" 
> > tube, but testing has proven that the tube size is actually more 
> > efficient than a 2" tube well into the 12 second range.  Low end 
> > torque and cold driveability are maintained which cannot be said of 
> > larger headers.
> > 
> > We're often asked "How much horsepower will they make?" which is a tough
> > question with a lot of variables.  We have chosen E.T. as a rough guideline
> > - once a combination is much below 12 seconds in performance (particularly
> > at higher RPM) suffers.  Engine displacement has a lot to do with 
> > this, along with many other factors.
> > 
> > Our testing results can be seen at www.engine-swaps.com by scrolling 
> > to the bottom of the page and clicking the "Smokin' Barracuda" link. 
> >  I have also done some flow study and can evaluate the suitability 
> > of the headers for specific combinations if you contact me off-list.
> > 
> > Bottom line:  Expect leaks and fitment problems with economy headers
> > 
> > (Blackjack, etc.)  Expect to pay in excess of $400 for a decent header.
> > Large diameter tubes are great for high horsepower drag cars but fit,
> > driveability, serviceability, and ground clearance suffer.
> > 
> > For ease of installation and maintenance I highly recommend the Schumacher
> > headers for street driven applications.  For higher-horsepower applications
> > I recommend TTI headers.
> > 
> > SC
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gary H. [mailto:spigot2039@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:49 PM
> > To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: Headers and.......
> > 
> > I suspect some of the confusion is from the post-1966 bias in parts
> > catalogs. Also, the pre-1966 B body use of a K member that moved the 
> > motor slightly forward compared to the 1966 up B's, which may affect 
> > header clearance in various header designs. Last I looked one mfg.,
> >  Hooker I think, listed pre-1966 headers, as did Schumacher Creative 
> > Services. Others anyone?
> > 
> > As for springs, remind us what B you have.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Gary H.
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > 
> > >
> > >
> > >    Can any one enlighten me on a couple of items? I want to replace 
> > >the headers and rear springs on my '65 Coronet. The problem is, the 
> > >applications for both items all say " will fit '66 to '74". I've 
> > >contacted Jegs, Summit, etc. and they can't tell me anything. Steve at 
> > >Imperial Services told me he runs the SS springs on the street,has 
> > >anyone else any comments? Thanks, Merwin
> > 
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> > 1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
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> > ----
> > Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person --
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> > protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune 
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> > 1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
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> > http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html. --^--
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> ----
> Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person --
>  directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and 
> negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended 
> recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will 
> protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune 
> the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!
> 
> 1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
> http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and 
> http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html. --^--
> -------------------------------------------------------------- This 
> email was sent to: nover@xxxxxxxx
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Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!

1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html.