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Board Moderator
Posts: 3186
   
Location: The not-so-great, dirty-white North ( Michigan) | From Neil Vedder (D500neil):
http://www.ch300imp.com/chs_us.htm |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 781
Location: Montreal, Canada | Here is the web page from the Chrysler heritage.
http://www.chryslerheritage.com/pg904.htm
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Elite Veteran
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Location: bradenton florida | was this card left in the car somewhere when it was built? like under the rear seat? |
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Veteran
Posts: 269
Location: Tampa, FL | I think you're thinking of the build sheet. I contacted Chrysler about this last year, because I was confused as to what the difference was between the IBM card and the build sheet. They told me that the IBM card was never placed in the car, and contained much more information than the build sheet. According to them, the build sheet was also not intended to be left in the car - it was to be used by the people working in the plant during the car's assembly then thrown away when the car was finished, and if you happened to find one still in the car, it was because the worker left it behind by mistake. I find this explanation kind of odd, considering people always find them in the same location, either in the front or back seat. If you were going to leave something behind accidentally I would think it would be UNDER the seat, not inside of it, and if you were too lazy to throw the thing out, why go through the trouble to stuff it in the seat?
They were right about one thing - I found my build sheet inside the lower back seat when I pulled it out to reupholster it in March, and it doesn't contain nearly as much information as the IBM card does. Still neat to have, though. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Mike there are TWO axioms to live by, when researching any FWDLK'er, (and probably is true, for ANY Mope) [this should be a "STICKY", up above!]
1. Never-say-Never (about the [possible] production of any car/model/equipment )
2. The "Factory", and Factory-literature/brochures, etc) can not be invariably relied upon, for providing accurate information.
Specifically, as was told to you, the Broadcast Sheets WERE(at least: "routinely", and probably "officially") SCOTCH-TAPED to the
backside of the glove boxes (at least in some/all late 50's Dodges).
The Broadcast Sheets have also been found, either lying-flat, or folded-into-thirds, in the front-seat-area flooring, beneath
the carpeting or the OEM rubber floor mats.
Broadcast Sheets have ALSO been found, on the REAR flooring area, where they were apparently tossed-down, carelessly,
before the interiors were installed.
In MY car's case, the still-OEM carpeting was replaced soon after I bought it, WELL before I ever became aware of their existence,
and the B-Sheet was never found, up/behind the OEM glove box, either.
In 1960, Broadcast Sheets began to be placed under/with the rear seat bottom (I found a '60 D500 B-Sheet there, on an
otherwize-PARTED-out car, once!) .
Mike: what year/make/model car do you have?
Edited by d500neil 2007-10-04 5:36 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 269
Location: Tampa, FL | Neil, it's a 58 Belvedere club coupe. The sheet was taped to the side of the rear seat bottom, not visible until I pulled the seat out. It just kind of surprises me that Chrysler would say that they weren't supposed to be left in the car and finding one is rare, when many people commonly find them and often in similar locations, even into the muscle car era. |
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Expert
Posts: 1443
Location: Oconomowoc Wi | <p>It is also not uncommon to find more-than-one copy of the same broadcast sheet in your car. My favorite spot to check, (...and where the most pristine copy is to be found,) is taped to the top surface of your cardboard glovebox. Where seats and carpet are likely to be disturbed durring the life of a car, the broadcast sheets taped over the glovebox are most often in great shape.</p><p>Get on your back and run your hand behind the dash and start feeling around on top of your glovebox, you may be pleasantly suprised. If you feel paper, proceed very slowly.</p>
Edited by Bart_59_Dodge 2007-10-05 2:20 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 269
Location: Tampa, FL | I think I might try that this weekend. If you guys never here from me again, that most likely will mean a brown widow took up residence on top of my glove box (those things are all over the place down here). |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | BART,s Right,, I laid on the front bench seat , and felt up on top of the Glove box, and " hey presto ", there was the broadcast sheet taped to the top of it.... I have never checked under the rear seat As it has been re-upholstered a few years back.. So i presumed it won,t be there no longer |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The "factory" [Histerical Society] says: "Now how did THAT get there???"
Mike it blows my mind that YOU are apparently the first person, in the history of your car, to remove the rear seat bottom(and
to discover the B-Sheet, there)?????
Dodges' B-Sheets have never been found (prior to 1960) anywhere near/attached-to the rear seat cushion.
"Proceed very slowly/carefully" is RIGHT, if you encounter any paper-like material up/behind the glove box.
I did have the thrill of finding one (which was actually hand-written-numbered, instead of being 'computer-numbered')
on a 57 Coro, that Don Parke owned---it was on his gold/white 2-dr hardtop; dunno where that car may be, now; it was
taped to the backside of the glove box.
Mike, I think that the question is: PRIOR to 1960, to what extent were B-Sheets left/deposited inside cars?
Edited by d500neil 2007-10-05 5:08 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | The IBM card was never left in the car as if was printed AFTER the car left the factory - it has the shipping date on it.
This particular card is for a 1957 Imperial owned by Phillipe Courante in France who purchased the card from Chrysler Historical.
The broadcast sheet was attached to various parts and subassemblies to help the line worker match which part went with which car. The broadcast sheets attached to the seats were placed there when when the seats were manufactured. Which is why they are usually under the seat springs.
The instrument panel was assembled on a separate line and thus the broadcast sheet was taped to the glovebox - the only flat area large enough to hold the sheet.
In the 1960's the Shipping Order Number identified the car as it rolled down the line. Which is why from 1960 through 1967 you can find the SON on all broadcast sheets (top left corner), the data tag under the hood and in various spots on the car body. The VIN did not appear on the broadcast sheets until 1966 or 1967, on the data tag until 1969 and the body until 1968.
The fact that the line workers were "supposed" to throw them out explains why many cars do not have them. Once the part was installed in the car, they were no longer needed.
The sheets from the mid-1970's had the date and time they were printed. It is interesting the compare the date/time on the sheets. Items such as the seats (which were not built at the assembly plant) have sheets that were printed days before the car was assembled while ones for trunk and floor mats are within a day or two (or sooner) of the assembly date.
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Expert
Posts: 3577
Location: Blythewood, SC | Considering how delicate the broadcast sheet is, I would remove the glove box and then try to remove the sheet. The glvoe box is held in place with a few screws and it will rotate down and out.
My broadcast sheet was under the rear seat tucked into the springs. It literally disintegrated to dust when I tried to remove it. There was not a piece left large enough to read a single letter.
Be careful with these things. Once they are gone, they are gone. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I may be wrong about this, but it is my understanding that the IBM PUNCH-CARD was prepared at the factory before the car was
built, and that the Broadcast sheet was prepared "off" of the IBM punch-card's information, about how the car was to be built.
Now, precisely how the card got INK-STAMPED, and HAND-WRITTEN onto, with certain additional information, including its manufacture-date
and motor-and-key numbers, indicates to me that at least one card-copy (there probably were several produced; I dunno) showed-up
at the car's "Final Inspection" station, so that a supervisor would have to, personally, verify that that car actually got produced,
and that it left the factory.
The IBM card was then sent-off, to Accounting Department, where it was recorded onto the micro-fische rolls.
But, the IBM cards, that we-all know-and-love, WERE present, physically, at the Final Inspection station, when each car
"officially" was completed-production, because they were "signed-off" by a responsible-person.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Actually, Bill brings up a good point: the Broadcast Sheets DO contain hand-written information regarding the color(s)
of the dash panels, and whether they had "Crash Pads", but , the B-Sheets would have had to be affixed AFTER the glove
boxes were installed, AND after the dash panels were painted, so that the B-Sheets which are found on the glove boxes,
probably proceeded down-the-line WITH the individual dashboard-stampings, and they were probably used as a quick visual reference n(from the hand-written notations on them) when the dashes were painted, and later, installed, into a car!!!!!.
The B-Sheets WERE very-well (as in using TWO strips of scotch tape) affixed to the glove boxes, so, altho they were
"expendable" items, the factory wanted to make SURE that the B-Sheets stayed with the dashes, at least until the
dashes were mated to the car!
There probably were several additional B-Sheets which accompanied the car, along the production line.
We have seen/found B-Sheets which were tossed-down, onto the bare floor, after the body was assembled (and
which, duh, were entombed by the interior fitments) , after some intermediate inspector apparently determined that the
car WAS constructed/finished as it was supposed to be done.
THIS IS WHY SOME CARS HAVE HAD TWO B-SHEETS BE FOUND IN THEM (like, for Clive Reeve!)
I have seen photos of B-Sheets scotch-taped to opened hoods, near to the Final Inspection station.
L.A. built Dodges (for many years) had had a strip of masking tape be applied across the center of the Paint/Trim plate
and which was LEFT there, while the body was being painted. That "strip" probably had held a B-Sheet, but why L.A.
ROUTINELY/always left that strip of tape lying across the P/T plate (and which was only removed AFTER the painting was done!)
I don't know.
SOOOO: there WAS a B-Sheet prepared for the dashboard, the exterior body, AND for final Inspection purpose.
EPIPHANY: thanks, Bill!
Edited by d500neil 2007-10-08 9:10 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Shiit, I should have said, on lines 2-3, above :"....AFTER the dash panels were painted, the gauges and trim were installed, AND after the glove box assembly was installed....the Broadcast Sheet got MASKING-taped to the back of the glove box..."
There must have been a large roll of 'MASKING-tape', at the dashboard assembly station, so that the B-Sheets could be "well-" affixed to the glove boxes, so that a line supervisor could ensure, by glancing at the hand-written notes, on the B-sheets, that each dashboard assembly, got put into the 'correct' car!!
Rather than make a big pile of waste scrap-sheets of the B-sheets, some bright-guy must have figured out that the B-sheets could be allowed to be tossed onto the bare floorboards, and to remain attached to the glove boxes, as the cars were being built.
Edited by d500neil 2007-10-09 5:27 PM
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Account Inactive by Request
Posts: 1601
| When Chrycoman speaks, y'all should listen. He's is a wealth of knowledge on all things Mopar--he doesn't post a lot, but he is always "on the money" when he does. How refreshing!! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | You know what's really unusual: on 1957 (& on 58's-59's too) Dodge glove-box Broadcast Sheets, the handwriting thereon is VERY distinctive, and they all (the relatively many that I've seen, to date) appear to be written by the same man!
Didn't he ever sleep?
Or, maybe; he just wrote-up a big-long bunch of 'Sheets, ahead of the production OF the dashboards!!!
Edited by d500neil 2007-11-27 6:24 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 101
Location: Walhalla, ND | In the Plymouth Club's video library is a film entitled "Wishes on Wheels". The movie, which lasts almost a half hour and is in color - follows a family from the dealership where it orders the new car as they want it built, through the factory until it rolls out the door to be delivered. I haven't watched the film for some time but there is a segment where the tour guide explains about the "computer terminals" (my words - not theirs) that spits out copies of the order to make sure the car is built with the equipment/color/accessories the customer ordered. It does make reference to various copies going to different areas of the assembly plant. There is no reference to these forms being left in the car - or destroyed or whatever - but they were using this system by at least 1955. Does anyone have a copy from an earlier car, other than the Service Record Card? By the way, the film is available for rental from the club library. If anyone is interested, contact me and I'll send details. |
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Veteran
Posts: 101
Location: Walhalla, ND | I forgot to mention - "Wishes on Wheels" is the 1955 Plymouth... |
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | d500neil - 2007-10-08 5:37 PM
I may be wrong about this, but it is my understanding that the IBM PUNCH-CARD was prepared at the factory before the car was
built, and that the Broadcast sheet was prepared "off" of the IBM punch-card's information, about how the car was to be built.
Now, precisely how the card got INK-STAMPED, and HAND-WRITTEN onto, with certain additional information, including its manufacture-date
and motor-and-key numbers, indicates to me that at least one card-copy (there probably were several produced; I dunno) showed-up
at the car's "Final Inspection" station, so that a supervisor would have to, personally, verify that that car actually got produced,
and that it left the factory.
The IBM card was then sent-off, to Accounting Department, where it was recorded onto the micro-fische rolls.
But, the IBM cards, that we-all know-and-love, WERE present, physically, at the Final Inspection station, when each car
"officially" was completed-production, because they were "signed-off" by a responsible-person.
Back in those days punch cards were the means data was entered into a computer. Keyboard entry came much later. Do not know how many data entry runs were made for each car, but I suspect there was more than one.
Any changes or additions to the car's specifications would have been entered into the computer via IBM cards. All broadcast sheets would have been printed from the data stored on the tapes, which is how computer data was stored back then - no hard drives, no CDs or DVDs. Anyone remember the intro to the 1960's Mannix TV series?
Also, the IBM card Chrysler microfilmed was not the card prepared before the car was built. Why not? The card microfilmed (not microfische) has the date the car was shipped from the factory, and that would not have been known prior to the car being built.
The serial number was also not known before the car was built during the 1960-65 era. Chrysler used the Shipping Order Number to track the car from beginning until completion, which is why you can find the SON number on the data tag and on the car body, but not the serial number which is found in but one location - a tag attached to the door pillar. The last six digits of the serial number were prestamped by machine - the raised numbers. When the car approached the end of the line, a worker grabbed the next plate on the pile and stamped the Car Line / Engine and Series digits onto the tag - which is why they are stamped into the metal. And that number was then recorded.
Thus the final IBM card was printed after the car was built and shipped. And somewhere along the line it was placed on microfilm for posterity.
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Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Warren, Michigan | Do the physical punch cards still exist or just the image of them? Either way, it seems that these cards should be scanned and read into an easily accessible database. The wealth of knowledge would make Neil cream in his pants!
I've never looked for the build sheet for my car. Maybe I'll venture out there this weekend and see what I can dig up. I'll have to order my IBM card as well, I just never have. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Joey, your car would/might-still have is Broadcast Sheet(s) , one of which might-still be masking-taped to the back of the glovebox, where it was attached, after the dashboard was painted and assembled. That B.Sheet controlled the varying-extents of a dash's color(s) and options [or not, depending upon how the car was programmed to be built]. That B.Sheet, later, let the Line Supervisor confirm that any-particular dashboard did, indeed, need to be installed on a particular car, as they came together, before(?) the Body Drop sequence occurred, on the production line.
The other B. Sheet(s) have been found, lying on top of the floor pan, under the floor coverings, where they were apparently tossed-down, by another Body-Supervisor, after ensuring that the car's exterior finish was correct. They REALLY inside the car, after the interior was installed! Some have been found in the front areas, and some have been found lying close to, and maybe, even-under, the rear seat areas.
The IBM cards' (crummy-quality) photocopies are available from the Historical Society.
BILL: what would be the proper name/term, for the "micro-film reader" ; I thoght that it was called a micro-fiche machine.
Edited by d500neil 2007-12-14 8:41 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: Warren, Michigan | We;ve got a half dozen large micro-film scanners where I work. They take the image from the microfilm and scans them into a regular computer file.
I would guess you could write some software to "read" the card from the image and import into a database. It certainly sounds like an interesting project. |
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | d500neil - 2007-12-14 5:30 PM
The IBM cards' (crummy-quality) photocopies are available from the Historical Society.
BILL: what would be the proper name/term, for the "micro-film reader" ; I thoght that it was called a micro-fiche machine.
Micro-film : Images of pages are shot on rolls of film which are stored on spools. These spools have leaders of about 24" which permit the film to be looped onto the pickup spool. Otherwise, you would be stuck hand-feeding the film until you had enough to place on the spool. The same goes for the end of the roll. With micro-film, the film is run under a plate of glass which holds the film in place under the lens used to read the film.
Sometimes you read articles on someone's gorgeous Mopar with all kinds of fancy equipment / engines, etc but the owner was not able to get a copy of the build record as the one for their car was at the end of the roll and too damaged to read. Being a user of micro-filmed articles and dealing with the roll leaders, I know this statement is a load of hooey. Just a convenent way of weasling out of producing the pertinent documentation.
Micro-fiche : The images are placed on sheets of film, usually about 6"x4". The sheet again is held in place under a plate of glass, but in this case the user moves the glass around under the lens to view the pages.
I have micro-fiche copies of DuPont and DuPont Canada colour cross-reference lists. The Ditzler/DuPont (US - 1985) sheet had 42 sets of pages on it (for a total of 84 pages). The CIL-DuPont Canada (1985) has smaller images with 61 pages occupying about 1/3 of the sheet.
The reason for the poor quality of the Chrysler Historical photocopies is that they are copies of micro-filmed images. Basically a copy of a copy. The original copies were destroyed after the micro-filming was done. Often wondered who did the micro-filming for Chrysler.
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Veteran
Posts: 166
Location: Massillon, Ohio USA | I found a "sheet" under the front seat of my 55 Coronet, it was glued to one of the seat supports. It has a printed # on it I assume refers to the form # P-16665-R3. It has categories on it such as; T&W CONV, BODY CONV., WHL. CONV., REGION, DEALER, CHASSIS MODEL, TACHOMETER, TOOL KIT, and more. It's measure about 6" long by 1 1/2" wide. On the back is hand written in grease pen "428 cc". Is this an elusive build sheet?
Edited by REDRAM 2008-06-03 8:43 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | YES, it is!!!
And, because your (1955) car may not have a Paint/Trim plate on it, that Broadfcast Sheet is particularly valuable in
documenting the build-constuction of your car.
Congratulations, and please consider posting a clear image of it on a new thread, here, so that we may all see and discuss your
car!
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Veteran
Posts: 166
Location: Massillon, Ohio USA | Unfortunately a good portion of the print is missing, it was glued on face down. I discovered it while sweeping out the car after I got it. I will attempt a good scan of it and post it. Hopefully the areas that remain will be legible. From what I can tell nothing is marked as far as options, etc, so decoding my car doesn't seem viable, but it should make for interesting conversation.
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Member
Posts: 25
| Hi guys-new to the forum. Interesting site. I have a '57 Custom Royal 2drhdt D-500. It's white with a blue interior. Pwr steering,brakes and seats. Radio,heater and A/C. Anyway, when I got the car home and pulled out the carpet, there were 2 layers of carpeting. And in between the two layers of carpeting was the IBM card. It laid in the footwell of the passenger rear seat. It matches the numbers of the VIN and engine block. The car has been in storage now 25+ years(picked it up in college). Haven't checked the glovebox for a build sheet. Didn't know it was there until I was reading this. Thought I would just thro my 2 cents in. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 781
Location: Montreal, Canada | Welcome Kevin, pictures are a must here!!!!!!
You will find great expertise here.
Have fun. |
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Regular
Posts: 60
Location: Connecticut | Bart_59_Dodge - 2007-10-05 2:17 PM
It is also not uncommon to find more-than-one copy of the same broadcast sheet in your car. My favorite spot to check, (...and where the most pristine copy is to be found,) is taped to the top surface of your cardboard glovebox. Where seats and carpet are likely to be disturbed durring the life of a car, the broadcast sheets taped over the glovebox are most often in great shape. Get on your back and run your hand behind the dash and start feeling around on top of your glovebox, you may be pleasantly suprised. If you feel paper, proceed very slowly.
After reading this, I decided to do some investigating on my vehicles. My 1957
DeSoto Firesweep came to me with lots of documentation, including a Broadcast Sheet
(not in very good condition), so I wasn't too optimistic about finding anything more. But
I went through some physical contortions to get under the dash and grope around the
glove box. Carefully feeling along the top, my fingers felt some paper!! Very cautiously
I attempted to free it without destroying anything. Fortunately, the tape securing it had
pretty well dried out, so it released without too much drama. To my total surprise, out
emerged a second broadcast sheet!!! This one in much better condition than the one that
came with the car. After gently cleaning away 51 years of dust, I now have a reasonably
ledgible artifact of my car's birthday! So on my DeSoto at least, there were two sheets
left inside after it was built. Don't know where the first one was found by a previous
owner, probably under back seat or rug.
C.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Craig, where/how did you find your car's other B-Sheet?
Underneath the carpeting?
The B.-Sheet you found was one of several that accompanied car-components, until they all came together at the Body Drop Station.
Your B.Sheet told the dashboard assembly-line how your car's dash was to be assembled, equipment-wize, and painted.
When the dash was done, a Line Supervisor taped it, securely, to the glove box, so that, when it arrived assembly line, another Supervisor could glance at it, and confirm that, YES, this dash does belong with THAt body.
Probably, some supervisors were lazier than others, and/or the B.-Sheet might have been poorly positioned on the glovebox, or, there might have been some other problem which might have required that the dash B.-Sheet be removed, to ensure that the dash DID get installed onto its rightful-car, but: not every car leaving the assembly-line did so with its dash B.-Sheet being still attached.
My own car shows no evidence of having had any long-term masking tape presence, on the back of the glovebox.
Edited by d500neil 2008-06-30 7:18 PM
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Regular
Posts: 60
Location: Connecticut | d500neil - 2008-06-30 7:16 PM
Craig, where/how did you find your car's other B-Sheet?
Underneath the carpeting?
The B.-Sheet you found was one of several that accompanied car-components, until they all came together at the Body Drop Station.
Your B.Sheet told the dashboard assembly-line how your car's dash was to be assembled, equipment-wize, and painted.
When the dash was done, a Line Supervisor taped it, securely, to the glove box, so that, when it arrived assembly line, another Supervisor could glance at it, and confirm that, YES, this dash does belong with THAt body.
Probably, some supervisors were lazier than others, and/or the B.-Sheet might have been poorly positioned on the glovebox, or, there might have been some other problem which might have required that the dash B.-Sheet be removed, to ensure that the dash DID get installed onto its rightful-car, but: not every car leaving the assembly-line did so with its dash B.-Sheet being still attached.
My own car shows no evidence of having had any long-term masking tape presence, on the back of the glovebox.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The first broadcast sheet was found by a previous owner and was included with other
documentation when I bought the car, so I have no idea where it was located. The one
I discovered was taped with strips of masking tape to top of glove box, and has several
hand written notations on it, including the word "blue" which is color of the padded dash.
Also the word "DeSoto" was written on it -- did Firesweeps come down the same line as
Dodges, or did they have their own line at the Dodge plant?
It sure was exciting to find this little piece of history. Since most old cars have
little or no information concerning their past, I am very fortunate to have what I do on
this DeSoto.
C.
Edited by rdtrpr 2008-07-01 7:02 AM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Desotos DID come down the production line, so "DeSoto" confirmed that your dash was to get the Soto treayment.
If you'll look closely, your B.Sheet should also have :" C.P." hand-written on it.
I would like to see your TWO Broadcast Sheets posted here, for comparison, as they should be slightly different from
each other.
BTW: "C.P." stands for Crash-Pad......and your dash may be ALL-blue, if it just says "Blue"
on it.
Craig: if you can/do post pics of your two B. Sheets, please start your own NEW thread, on this board,
so that others can readily see/discuss your car.
Edited by d500neil 2008-07-01 4:14 PM
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Regular
Posts: 60
Location: Connecticut | Neil,
OK, I'll try to get some pics and post next week. The other notations
on the glove box sheet are the number "191" in pencil, a large letter "C"
and a large letter "N", both written in what looks like black magic marker.
Other than the added notations on the one , both sheets look the same to
me. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 608
Location: Madison, Wisconsin | The link at the top of this thread was out of date. Here is a more current link to Chrysler Historical Collection Archives...
http://wpchryslermuseum.org/newsroom.do?id=390&mid=135 |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I think that THIS is the current contact-page for the Historical Society and for purchasing the IBM build card copies.
http://wpchryslermuseum.org/page.aspx?pid=400 |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 608
Location: Madison, Wisconsin | I tried to use the link above to order my IBM card. It doesn't seem to work. Anyone know how to contact the Historical Society? |
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Expert
Posts: 3887
Location: Northen Virginia | I missed this thread back in 2007, I can see a lot of people talking like the were actually workers of the plant and specifically working with the IBM cards. But I can't see not even one proof of anything stated above. This how imagination became a reality. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Without reading this thread, in full., this is apparently the correct contact address for the Chrysler Historical Society:
Fax the request to (313)252-2928 with ownership documentation and details of your car's VIN and they will get back with the cost.
Chrysler Historical Society
12501 Chrysler Freeway
CIMS 410-11-21
Detroit, MI 48288
Edited by d500neil 2013-01-17 1:46 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 873
Location: ALABAMA, HEART OF DIXIE | Fax the request to (313)252-2928 with ownership documentation and details of your car's VIN and they will get back with the cost. Chrysler Historical Society 12501 Chrysler Freeway CIMS 410-11-21 Detroit, MI 48288 Good information, thank you A e-mail addy or web site would be great as few of the folks here have fax capibilities..... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 362
Location: North Carolina | According to the folks at Chrysler I spoke with yesterday, they don't have a phone number or a site as of yet. On my fax, I did request they email me or call back with the info as I do not have access to a fax machine in my home(it was through wife's work). For some reason I'm imagining the guy doing the research in a dimly lit basement with boxes and boxes of antique paperwork and no contact with the outside world. So, we'll see how this works out, lol.
Edited by Kungfupanda 2013-01-17 2:02 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Go buy a copy of your car's IBM Build card, from the Historical Society and all shall be (eventually) revealed to you, from
its information.
http://wpchryslermuseum.org/page.aspx?pid=400
Fax the request to (313)252-2928 with ownership documentation and details of your car's VIN and they will get back with the cost.
Chrysler Historical Society
12501 Chrysler Freeway
CIMS 410-11-21
Detroit, MI 48288
Edited by d500neil 2013-08-18 7:44 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | Is there a VIN and Option code "decoder" somewhere? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Only in personal collections/research.
I'm a Dodge Boy researcher.
The various marques' codings are somewhat like understanding Latin, and then being confronted with modern French or
Portuguese; similar in structure, but completely different in meanings and interpretations.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 873
Location: ALABAMA, HEART OF DIXIE | it was because the worker left it behind by mistake. I find this explanation kind of odd, considering people always find them in the same location, either in the front or back seat. If you were going to leave something behind accidentally I would think it would be UNDER the seat, not inside of it, and if you were too lazy to throw the thing out, why go through the trouble to stuff it in the seat? I found my build sheet inside the lower back seat when I pulled it out to reupholster QUOTE] This is from an old quote at the beginning of the thread. Something that has not been addressed as yet is the fact that the broadcash sheets normally found in the seat cousions are "captured" between the seat pads and springs and had to be placed there during the upholstery process..... which would have been located somewhere off line either in the same building or perhaps another location all together. This would indicate a high level of orginazation to bring broadcast sheets together on the assembly line.
Just some interesting insite.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | There were several/many Broadcast Sheets that accompanied parts of the car assembly, toward its completion.
The one that most of us know and love merely happened to control the fabrication, outfitting and appearance of the dash board
assemblies.
Their B-Sheets were attached to their completed 'back's, so that when they arrived at the assembly line, a Supervisor could confirm that 'this' dash goes onto 'that' car.
1960 appears to be the first year (for Dodges) to have had B-Sheets be installed between the rear seat springs and the cushions, obviously in Re: the interior assembly.
Some B-Sheets have been found lying against the floor pans, where they were 'discarded' by a Line Supervisor, before the interior was installed.
One man, even, has found his car's (non-finalized, obviously) IBM Build-Card lying on his car's floor pan!
Edited by d500neil 2013-08-20 5:10 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 873
Location: ALABAMA, HEART OF DIXIE | d500neil - The one that most of us know and love merely happened to control the fabrication, outfitting and appearance of the dash board assemblies. Their B-Sheets were attached to their completed 'back's, so that when they arrived at the assembly line, a Supervisor could confirm that 'this' dash goes onto 'that' car.
I have not yet located a broadcast sheet in my 41K mile 61 Fury. I've checked the seat springs and have removed the carpet... nothing. There is also nothing taped to the glove box that I can find and dosen't show any indication of tape marks. I haven't removed it yet but it is pretty accessable. I did get a copy of the IBM card through Chrysler historical that verifys the equipment on my car. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 390
| I'll defer to Bill Watson on this to be corrected, but I believe there would have been broadcast sheets for at least the following areas, if not more.
Engine/Powertrain Assembly: The assembly plant gets a basic built up engine from the engine plant and then dresses it according to the car order to include the power steering pump, the a/c compressor, radiator and heater hoses and possibly other items that attach to the engine, plus the transmission (manual, manual w/overdrive, automatic - Powerflite or Torqueflite) The engine/transmission assembly would be installed in the chassis as a unit. For a number of years, Chrysler did not install carburetors on engines until they arrived at the assembly plants because of an in-transit theft problem. Engines were `hot-tested' on propane. I don't recall the exact years that this practice occurred, and will absolutely defer to Bill on this point as my memory is foggy on this.
Chassis: This will include the style of frame required by the car ordered as well as the springs/torsion bars at the front, leaf springs at the back, the shock absorbers, the steering box (manual or power), steering column and wheel and the brakes (size/width) plus the brake hoses, fuel lines, fuel tank, rear axle, driveshaft, wheels and tires. All of this is applicable only through 1959 as the "chassis" components of unibody cars would not include a frame or fuel lines. Pre '59 chassis assembly may also include bumpers. The frame assembly started with the frame upside down to facilitate rear axle installation. Prior to power unit installation, it was flipped right side up.
Body in White: This will describe what body is being built, whether or not the car had a/c and possibly other items.
Paint: The colour/colours and paint scheme (monotone, two tone, tri-tone and for '57 and up cars, what colours went where - roof, fins, body etc).
I/P: As is most often discussed on many of these threads, this will deal with what components go into the instrument panel, heater controls, radio, colour, crash pad, instruments/gauges and transmission controls for '55 'Flite cars and '56 and up automatics of any kind.
Body Assembly: This will deal with running wire harnesses through the car, adding rubber plugs, installing heater/airconditioning boxes and the like. May also include window regulators, door lock mechanisms, exterior trim, mouldings, nameplates
Likely at this point the body will be installed on the chassis.
Trim: Will detail what door/quarter trim panels are used, the floor covering (carpet/rubber), windcord, door sill plates, headliners, package trays and so on. Seats were built up in a separate area of the plant and sent to the line on a conveyor, so they will have had their own broadcast sheet which is why so many of this copy are found. Chrysler currently does not assemble their own seats - they are supplied by an off-site vendor and loaded in reverse order on the trucks delivering them so that the first seats out, go on the first vehicle on the line, and the last seats in the truck are 20-30 vehicles later (or however many sets can be loaded in a truck these days)
Front clip: will include the front fenders, rad yoke and rad, horns, inner fenders and parts that attach to them (regulators, relays, windshield washer reservoirs)
Final assembly: Likely deals with making all final electrical and fluid connections, hooking up hoses, installing fluids - antifreeze, brake fluid, power steering, and topping off the automatic transmission. Setting front end alignment and other chassis adjustments. The point on the line where hood installation occurred, varied depending on where the hinges were mounted.
Once the car reached the end of the line, it is started for the first time and driven to the rolls test. Once it passes here, most plants had a final inspection line to address any minor quality concerns. Vehicles were then released to the shipping people for them to do their `thing'.
As has been mentioned before, cars were built according to the S.O. number and not according to the vin. One point that seems to be rarely mentioned is that multiple vehicles were built from a single S.O. I'm sure the number varied, but in the mid 1960s there were 50 on a single S.O.
All of this is based on my recollection of conversations with a number of engineers and assembly plant people from years ago as well as weeks and months of reviewing records of all sorts when Historical was an on-again off-again entity. For a long time the joke was "Don't bother bringing lunch to work, you might not be staying that long".
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Kevin, are you talking about Fleet Sales, with multiple cars having the same Sales Order number?
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 907
Location: Magra, Sweden | Up to date links from Chrysler Historical Services - Build Records
http://www.chryslergroupllc.com/company/Heritage/Pages/Build-Record...
Order form for Build Record
http://www.chryslergroupllc.com/company/Heritage/Heritage%20Documen... |
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Factory IBM Punchcard Decoder Ring.......
