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Who came up with this: Alternator driving the 55-56 PS pump ??
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-06-22 12:55 PM (#600009)
Subject: Who came up with this: Alternator driving the 55-56 PS pump ??



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I knew that it could be done. Just never pursued it.

While searching for examples of 56 Windsor power brake systems, I came across this 56 Windsor (for sale in Tampa) with an alternator that has been modified with an intermediate plate that is being used to drive the Power Steering Pump. I would do that to my 56 Dodge if I knew more details. I'm wondering whether somebody did this and sold the kit to do the modification (??)

Photos from the for sale advert:



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-06-22 12:58 PM




(1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_3.jpg)



(1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_2.jpg)



(1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_1.jpg)



(1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_5.jpg)



(1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_4.jpg)



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Attachments 1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_3.jpg (218KB - 445 downloads)
Attachments 1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_2.jpg (233KB - 438 downloads)
Attachments 1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_1.jpg (206KB - 445 downloads)
Attachments 1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_5.jpg (209KB - 446 downloads)
Attachments 1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_4.jpg (221KB - 444 downloads)
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57chizler
Posted 2020-06-22 2:31 PM (#600013 - in reply to #600009)
Subject: RE: Who came up with this: Alternator driving the 55-56 PS pump ??



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Not the same as pictured but there is a kit for Jaguars.

https://xks.com/i-7150766-jaguar-alternator-kit-mk-ii-mk-ix-with-pow...
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Stroller
Posted 2021-04-22 11:03 AM (#611286 - in reply to #600009)
Subject: Re: Who came up with this: Alternator driving the 55-56 PS pump ??


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That's pretty slick. No idea how on earth someone did it but cool. Me still using the generator in my '56. Busy critter.
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-04-22 11:44 AM (#611287 - in reply to #600013)
Subject: RE: Who came up with this: Alternator driving the 55-56 PS pump ??



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57chizler - 2020-06-22 11:31 AM
Not the same as pictured but there is a kit for Jaguars.
https://xks.com/i-7150766-jaguar-alternator-kit-mk-ii-mk-ix-with-pow...


It's really affordable too!

I would be interested in something like this, but only if it were coupled with a powergen alternator so it doesn't look so glaringly out of place. A less appalling change would be to use a powergen with the power steering pump moved to a custom water pump mount. That would look much better than having this thing mounted at the top of your motor.

Probably an even better option would be to disconnect your generator so it's not doing anything except driving your pump, and mount a small modern alternator down low on your motor so its hardly even visible. If I really needed the extra juice, this is probably how I would do it. But I've found that as long as I'm not running a lot of other electronics in my car, that what I have is perfectly suitable. Convert all your lights to LED's and you have even less need for electrical power.

Edited by Powerflite 2021-04-22 11:45 AM
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-04-22 12:15 PM (#611288 - in reply to #611287)
Subject: RE: Who came up with this: Alternator driving the 55-56 PS pump ??



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I approached the alternator in a generator people (powergen?) and they were not interested in playing.

I cannot physically see the connection between the alternator and the PS pump for this Jaguar alternator. I have ideas in my head but no skills (machine shop) to carry them out.



You would need to start with an alternator like this Delco Remy 10si that has the rotor shaft exposed at the end, not covered by the rectifier and/or voltage regulator. The shaft would have to be machined to create a slot to drive the next step and a spacer/adapter plate would be needed to clear the alternator connections and create a way to mount the PS pump. Might have to have an intermediate bearing and an intermediate shaft to connect the alternator rotor shaft to the pump shaft.











Edited by 56D500boy 2021-04-22 12:36 PM
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JedRhule
Posted 2021-09-11 10:40 PM (#614969 - in reply to #600009)
Subject: Re: Who came up with this: Alternator driving the 55-56 PS pump ??



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Has anyone tried WAI 12336N. 80 amp alternator with hydro pump.
It fits some GMC 1998 - 2002/
I have a '56 with the poly heads.
I need to install A/C to use the car here in Florida.
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mstrug
Posted 2021-09-12 8:43 PM (#615003 - in reply to #600009)
Subject: Re: Who came up with this: Alternator driving the 55-56 PS pump ??



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Hmmm..... https://www.ebay.com/itm/114659251615?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid...
New Alternator HIT 12V 80A for Isuzu NPR, GMC, Chevrolet with Pump - 12335

Edited by mstrug 2021-09-12 8:46 PM
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JedRhule
Posted 2021-09-14 3:10 PM (#615043 - in reply to #615003)
Subject: Re: Who came up with this: Alternator driving the 55-56 PS pump ??



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I spoke to an engineer at WAI today and he told me that this alternator 12336N, has a vacuum pump, not hydro.
But, it does have a splined shaft out the back of the unit. You could make a coupler to connect to the original Dodge P/S pump.
Sorry for the inaccurate information.
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-09-16 1:55 AM (#615093 - in reply to #611288)
Subject: RE: Who came up with this: Alternator driving the 55-56 PS pump ??



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56D500boy - 2021-04-22 9:15 AM.
I approached the alternator in a generator people (powergen?) and they were not interested in playing.
I cannot physically see the connection between the alternator and the PS pump for this Jaguar alternator. I have ideas in my head but no skills (machine shop) to carry them out.


Since then, and in a similar thread, I became aware of alternators on some diesel trucks that are used to drive a vacuum pump attached to the back of the alternator. The alternator armature has a splined shaft that comes out the back of the alternator. They look very promising.

The one that on the silver Chrysler Windsor above, driving the Eaton power steering pump, is very likely an Hitachi LR 170-420 which is used on Isuzu diesel trucks to provide 12V charging as well as vacuum for the PS system.

This one:



There is also a smaller sized one that might be adaptable to live inside a generator case. That is likely a Hitachi LR 180-510 like this one (also sold as a WAI 12336N):



Edited by 56D500boy 2021-09-16 1:59 AM




(SmallIsuzuAlternator_WithVaccumPump.jpg)



(WAI_Global_12336N_Frontside.jpg)



(WAI_Global_12336N_Backside.jpg)



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Attachments SmallIsuzuAlternator_WithVaccumPump.jpg (79KB - 198 downloads)
Attachments WAI_Global_12336N_Frontside.jpg (60KB - 191 downloads)
Attachments WAI_Global_12336N_Backside.jpg (60KB - 195 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-09-17 5:53 PM (#615133 - in reply to #615093)
Subject: RE: Who came up with this: Alternator driving the 55-56 PS pump ??



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56D500boy - 2021-09-15 10:55 PM
There is also a smaller sized one that might be adaptable to live inside a generator case. That is likely a Hitachi LR 180-510 like this one (also sold as a WAI 12336N):


Hmm.... I was thinking that this was a good idea until I found this thread on the HAMB board that discusses this option. Seems like cooling the alternator's diodes can be an issue with the alternator in a "can" (or maybe even in general):

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/alt-in-alum-generator-ca...

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Powerflite
Posted 2021-09-17 6:40 PM (#615134 - in reply to #600009)
Subject: Re: Who came up with this: Alternator driving the 55-56 PS pump ??



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So cut some air flow slots in the bottom of the case, where you can't see them, if that's what you need. I don't see a problem with the cooling as long as you design it properly and the original alternator isn't a high output unit.
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-09-17 6:52 PM (#615135 - in reply to #615134)
Subject: Re: Who came up with this: Alternator driving the 55-56 PS pump ??



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Powerflite - 2021-09-17 3:40 PM
So cut some air flow slots in the bottom of the case, where you can't see them, if that's what you need. I don't see a problem with the cooling as long as you design it properly and the original alternator isn't a high output unit.


I hear you. Thought of that (cooling holes/slots) before I read the HAMB posting.

What do you consider "high output"? The little Hitachi LR 180-510 with the external drive shaft that I am looking at is 80 Amp.

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Powerflite
Posted 2021-09-17 8:31 PM (#615136 - in reply to #600009)
Subject: Re: Who came up with this: Alternator driving the 55-56 PS pump ??



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Up to 60 amp is what I would call lower output. 80 amp may have trouble. Not sure how it would do. I know the Rotten Leonard alternators were limited to around 45-50 amp due to overheating issues, but they didn't have any slots in the housing for bi-directional airflow either.
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-09-17 8:39 PM (#615139 - in reply to #600009)
Subject: RE: Who came up with this: Alternator driving the 55-56 PS pump ??



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I am *SLOWLY* starting to figure out what is going on with the alternator in the Windsor:

1. I *think* the alternator is an Hitachi LR 170-420 (with an extended splined shaft out the back to drive an accessory, e.g. vacuum pump).

2. Upon closer look, I see now that the OE Auto-Lite Generator PS pump drive plate is still being used.

3. The new aluminum bit is *just* a spacer attached to the alternator case, to which the OE drive plate is attached.

4. I am guessing that the OE drive "dog" is just bolted to the alternator shaft, very much the same as the OE drive dog is attached to the extended end of the Auto-Lite generator armature shaft.

*I think*





Edited by 56D500boy 2021-09-18 2:27 AM




(DaveFs56DodgeVickersPSPump.jpg)



(1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_0.jpg)



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Attachments DaveFs56DodgeVickersPSPump.jpg (137KB - 189 downloads)
Attachments 1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_0.jpg (214KB - 190 downloads)
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Fin_ish Floyd
Posted 2021-12-11 2:40 AM (#617548 - in reply to #600009)
Subject: Re: Who came up with this: Alternator driving the 55-56 PS pump ??


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If you are interested, I make power steering pump kits for the 56 Dodge 270 or 315 . Pump, pump cap, pump bracket, 2 groove water pump pulley, hose set, hardware and instructions. $450.00 plus $65.00 shipping.

Floyd Richard Sr.
YouTurn Power Steering Conversions LLC
3503 North Jackson St.
Santa Fe, Texas 77517
Ph.409-789-4064
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