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Problem with '56 New Yorker
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dvanpelt
Posted 2020-08-13 11:03 PM (#602009)
Subject: Problem with '56 New Yorker


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Posts: 5

Hello,

We recently purchased a 1956 New Yorker that drove beautifully for the first day we owned it. The next day, it drove fine for the first hour, then started acting like it is chained to the concrete when you try to start out, and takes the pedal clear to the floor to finally let loose and go again. Sometimes it won't go at all. Last we tried, it backed up okay, then drug the rear passenger tire when we tried to go forward. I shut it off, jacked up the rear, and the wheels turned freely. The transmission is up on fluid, and all the wheels turn freely. It will drive the rear wheels when the rear is jacked up, but when back on the ground acts again like it's chained down. We are very disappointed as we have only driven it 30 miles in the last 3 months that we have owned it. Has anyone ever had a problem like this? Thank you for your time!

Daniel
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22mafeja
Posted 2020-08-14 1:36 AM (#602012 - in reply to #602009)
Subject: RE: Problem with '56 New Yorker


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I would first check that the parking brake is ok . If there is loose parts inside the drum it can behave really strange.
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-08-14 2:48 AM (#602016 - in reply to #602009)
Subject: RE: Problem with '56 New Yorker



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You might want to visit this thread:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=73177&...





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57chizler
Posted 2020-08-14 12:32 PM (#602027 - in reply to #602009)
Subject: RE: Problem with '56 New Yorker



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dvanpelt - 2020-08-13 8:03 PM

Last we tried, it backed up okay, then drug the rear passenger tire when we tried to go forward.


Since it only drags when on the ground I'm thinking wheel bearing.
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dvanpelt
Posted 2020-08-14 12:42 PM (#602028 - in reply to #602009)
Subject: Re: Problem with '56 New Yorker


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Posts: 5

Thank you for the information! I just removed the emergency brake drum and everything was clean and tight. Now I have ATF dripping out around the shaft, but it appears that this only started when I removed the drum. I'm not sure if its a transmission or torque converter issue? My wife is so disappointed that she is ready to sell the car as is. I have to get this diagnosed asap or I may come home one evening and it's been sold!
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StillOutThere
Posted 2020-08-14 12:45 PM (#602029 - in reply to #602009)
Subject: Re: Problem with '56 New Yorker



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I once bought an old car that I did every service on I could think of at the shop where I worked at the time. But at midnight, was too tired to do the packing of the last (other) front wheel bearing. It was so dry it SEIZED UP on the drive home galling the spindle. Cost time and money to fix! Find the problem before going further!
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-08-14 2:25 PM (#602035 - in reply to #602028)
Subject: Re: Problem with '56 New Yorker



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dvanpelt - 2020-08-14 9:42 AM Thank you for the information! I just removed the emergency brake drum and everything was clean and tight. Now I have ATF dripping out around the shaft, but it appears that this only started when I removed the drum. I'm not sure if its a transmission or torque converter issue?


Your wife needs to take a chill pill. Freaking out over a little leak on a 62 year old car? That's a little crazy in my opinion. Good luck with that.

Your dragging/brake issue could be a number of things. I had issues with my front center plane/Total Contact brakes until I learned how to adjust them:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=70484&...

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=68135&...

Your transmission leak is at rear so most likely it is the rear shaft seal. Should be easy to replace.

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=73997&...





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Powerflite
Posted 2020-08-14 3:46 PM (#602039 - in reply to #602009)
Subject: Re: Problem with '56 New Yorker



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What Chizler is saying makes a lot of sense. A bad wheel bearing will give you an enormous amount of trouble, often in one direction. But with the wheels up, you should be able to grab the wheel and see if it is loose in the vertical or horizontal directions. Also check the rear brakes. Bad timing of the distributor will also cause the car to run with low power. Check the timing on the distributor.
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dvanpelt
Posted 2020-08-14 4:25 PM (#602042 - in reply to #602009)
Subject: Re: Problem with '56 New Yorker


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Posts: 5

Could it be the torque converter or one of the pumps in the transmission, or am I in the wrong line of thinking?
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-08-14 4:31 PM (#602044 - in reply to #602042)
Subject: Re: Problem with '56 New Yorker



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dvanpelt - 2020-08-14 1:25 PM
Could it be the torque converter or one of the pumps in the transmission, or am I in the wrong line of thinking?


Sure it could be those too but you need to establish that the running gear (bearings, brakes, etc) is free to turn before you should start on the transmission.

Is it a 2 spd Powerflite or 3 spd Torqueflite?



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dvanpelt
Posted 2020-08-14 5:04 PM (#602047 - in reply to #602009)
Subject: Re: Problem with '56 New Yorker


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Posts: 5

2 speed Powerflite, and everything turns great off the ground. In neutral you can spin the driveline easily by hand, and the wheels turn smoothly. I repacked all the rear bearings which were recently installed. The brake on the driveline works great and does not bind in any way. All the components inside are tight and clean. The last time I tried to move it, it barely made it 8 feet with high rpm's and I shut it off and jacked up the rear and both wheels turned as free as could be. Thank you for your help!
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-08-14 5:19 PM (#602050 - in reply to #602047)
Subject: Re: Problem with '56 New Yorker



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So to be clear, when you jack up a front wheel, you can spin it freely by hand? And when you apply the brake and then try again, it still runs free? On both sides?

I had issues with the Center Plane/Total contact front brakes on my 56 Dodge when the left front would not release after being applied in the forward direction. I could get it loose by putting the car in reverse and going a few feet. The issue had to do with the Chinese linings on the new shoes and moisture and/or rust. The solution was to:

a) lube the brake shoes where they slide in the Center Plane guide structure
b) install new return springs
c) reinstall the drum and adjust the wheel bearing properly (not too tight, not too loose) and
d) adjust the brake shoes (one at a time) properly.

Then thing were fine - mostly - the shoes still don't like moist humid air but things clear up with driving and braking in the first few minutes.

The transmission does have front and rear pumps and they could be the issue, as could the torque converter. But that = $$$ so you don't want to go there unless all other possibilities have been eliminated.

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dvanpelt
Posted 2020-08-14 5:46 PM (#602057 - in reply to #602009)
Subject: Re: Problem with '56 New Yorker


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Both front wheels turn freely until the brake is applied, at which point they can no longer be turned. I removed all four drums to make sure that a clip had not come loose or anything else could be binding them. All four wheels work as they should. I'm hoping that it's something simple, but I am not finding anything at all suspicious so far. I've restored two Model A's and a '57 Austin Healey and I prefer to do all my own work. I called around to the transmission shops in town to see if anyone would take a look at it, but nobody wants to touch it due to it's age. I'm determined to figure this out and get it driving again. I appreciate all of your help immensely! I lost my Dad in June and we had always worked together restoring our Model A's and he always seemed to have the answer when I got into a problem that I couldn't think through. I greatly appreciate your help in getting this one back on the road where it belongs.
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-08-14 8:07 PM (#602064 - in reply to #602057)
Subject: Re: Problem with '56 New Yorker



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dvanpelt - 2020-08-14 2:46 PM

Both front wheels turn freely until the brake is applied, at which point they can no longer be turned.


Sorry to hear about your father. Condolences.

So with the brake drums on, all wheel turn with the brakes off. When you apply the brakes. The wheels can not be turned. Okay.

So what happens when you release the brake? Do the wheels, especially the front brakes turn again or are they locked?

Are the clips and more importantly, the return springs, in the correct positions? (It's easy to get the return springs in the wrong location - in the hole in the web, not in the loop on the edge of the shoe):









Edited by 56D500boy 2020-08-14 8:18 PM
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22mafeja
Posted 2020-08-15 1:51 AM (#602071 - in reply to #602057)
Subject: Re: Problem with '56 New Yorker


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If one rear wheel did stand still it imo means that the issue must be behind the transmission.
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58coupe
Posted 2020-08-15 10:34 AM (#602083 - in reply to #602009)
Subject: Re: Problem with '56 New Yorker



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Just a thought, disconnect and plug the vacuum line to the power brake unit and see if that makes any difference. It could possibly be leaking internally, applying the brakes with the engine running.
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57chizler
Posted 2020-08-15 1:45 PM (#602090 - in reply to #602047)
Subject: Re: Problem with '56 New Yorker



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I still think the problem is related to your statement in the OP "Last we tried, it backed up okay, then drug the rear passenger tire when we tried to go forward."

A bad wheel bearing will allow the axle to deflect upwards when the car weight is on the ground, this will allow the brakes to drag sufficiently to lock up that wheel. Jack the passenger tire clear of the ground and check the tire for excessive up/down movement.

Edited by 57chizler 2020-08-15 1:47 PM
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