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Center Plane Brakes Locking Up
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Rob
Posted 2020-10-21 7:11 PM (#604759)
Subject: Center Plane Brakes Locking Up


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I can't figure this out, it's been discussed on this forum before, perhaps someone has a new insight.

I've got three of these forward look cars. Two work fine, one has front brakes that keep locking up when first starting off going forwards. I can fix the problem by driving backwards and hitting the brakes hard several times. This always fixes the problem, until the next time I drive the car.

Replacing the shoes and turning the drums will solve the problem. But, seven or eight months and 500 or so miles later, the problem comes back and seemingly gets worse and worse until I replace the shoes and turn the drums again. I think I've done this three times now.

(Two 58 Plymouths and one '61 Plymouth. One of the 58 Plymouths has the problem.)

Does anyone have an answer?



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57plybel
Posted 2020-10-21 7:44 PM (#604765 - in reply to #604759)
Subject: RE: Center Plane Brakes Locking Up



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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Rob,  check / replace your return springs and make sure to get the correct ones. Freely available nowadays.... the usual check for leaks, lining contamination, shoe concentricity still apply.

 

Colin

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mobileparts
Posted 2020-10-22 12:16 AM (#604770 - in reply to #604759)
Subject: Re: Center Plane Brakes Locking Up


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One major important ingredient is +++ N.O.S. +++ Asbestos +++
Brake Shoes --- the softest, smoooooothest braking system known
to mankind.... They NEVER lock up......I have some.....

You are welcome to call me --- Craig --- 516 - 485 - 1935 .... New York...

Edited by mobileparts 2020-10-22 12:17 AM
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Rob
Posted 2020-10-22 6:54 PM (#604793 - in reply to #604759)
Subject: Re: Center Plane Brakes Locking Up


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Thank you, 57PlyBel & MobileParts.

Already done the springs, leaks, contamination. As for asbestos linings, none of the three cars has the asbestos linings, two work well, one does not. Leads me to believe
lining may not be the problem.

I never did check for shoe concentricity, that is something to look at. But, the brakes worked well for about possibly a year and 500 miles, now they lock up?

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56D500boy
Posted 2020-10-22 8:22 PM (#604795 - in reply to #604759)
Subject: RE: Center Plane Brakes Locking Up



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
From a previous thread on center plane brakes and locking-up:

56D500boy - 2019-10-27 8:45 PM
It seems when the weather turns rainy, my left front brake becomes very grabby. I "solved" that last winter by backing off the adjustment on that wheel. Less grabby but much lower peddle. When the weather turned dry (spring and summer), I re-adjusted the brakes tighter (properly) and everything was fine. Until a few weeks ago when the weather turned wet out here (BC Coast) snd the left front grab (more low speed lock-up) returned with a vengence. Rather than do the work around like last year, I decided to actually do something positive and hopefully cure the problem. In this case, the solution might be to install a pair of the NORS return springs that have been sitting on my desk for at least a year. Duh.

Not a real big job. Took the wheel and drum off and cleaned everything (wasn't dirty or wet but cleaner is always better). Then I removed the green OE return springs, one at a time. Getting the new springs on was a bit of a challenge since they are much tighter/stiffer than the OE ones that I removed. Tried a bunch of different methods but the one that worked involved hooking the new spring into the shoe at the web and then stretching the spring to the inner attachment point with a relatively thin (but long) flat bladed screw driver and then "encouraging" the short end of the spring to go into the attachment "D" hole. The first one took several tries. The second on only one or two tries. Yes I have a brake spring pliers but they were useless.

While I was there, I also re-lubed the sliding points of the brake shoe web and the total contact brake guides so no issues there. With everything (drum, spindle nut, wheel) back on, I adjusted the brakes with my new "tool" 7/16" deep socket on a 10" 3/8" breaker bar. Took it for a drive yesterday (and today) and no issues. Down side to the test is that both today and yesterday were dry (no rain).

Here is an old photo of the front left brake with the green OE return springs (that were apparently weak). (And yes, I did wipe off all that excess grease the last time I had things apart.)


After an nice dry spring, summer and fall (mostly), and even with new return springs on at least the left front, the grabbing/locking came back the other day after not driving the car. Always on the left front. I decided to just power through it and after a few minutes of driving slowly on my local street and stopping (and grabbing), things freed up. Today after not having driven the car for a few more days (moist and cool weather but not really rainy), I purposely applied the brakes while backing out of the garage. Seemed to help. No real locking and only minor grabbing in Drive for the first 100 yds of driving on the street. After that, it was fine.

I think adjustment is important too:

An Adjustment thread: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=68135&...







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57plybel
Posted 2020-10-22 8:45 PM (#604796 - in reply to #604759)
Subject: RE: Center Plane Brakes Locking Up



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Location: Melbourne, Australia

I could add that the "tongue" on the shoe that the adjusting cam is adjacent to, will bend if it has locked up too many times; check for distortion there. See pic above.   Also the backing plates do wear on the pads that the edge of the shoe ride upon. They need to be flat and lubed.

As Craig says, asbestos shoes make a huge difference to being trouble free.....

After having teething problems like you, mine are trouble free for a good 15 years.

 

Colin

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ronbo97
Posted 2020-10-22 10:24 PM (#604799 - in reply to #604796)
Subject: RE: Center Plane Brakes Locking Up


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When were the hoses replaced ? They can collapse or partially collapse internally, despite looking good on the outside. Also, readjust shoe-to-drum distance on both front brakes. And you're right, asbestos brake shoes are not related to this issue. I would advise against using them, due to health hazard from breathing the dust.

Ron

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Viper Guy
Posted 2020-10-23 11:18 AM (#604817 - in reply to #604759)
Subject: Re: Center Plane Brakes Locking Up



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Location: Branson, MO
From my experience and I have related to this before somewhere on this forum, moisture, which is in the air, is absorbed into the brake linings. The brakes will grab going in the forward direction after the car is sitting for even a short time - period! The longer the car sits, the worse the condition.

I used to back out of the drive dragging the brakes which helped. When going forward I applied the brakes lightly at 35 MPH or so and dragged them to 15 to 20 MPH and usually they evaporated enough moisture so they worked normally at least for a day or two. I got sick and tired of doing this for several years and finally bit the bullet and put new shoes on. It has been over a year now that I did this and everything has been working perfectly so far.

Not to say it won't happen again, and if it does, I will replace the linings without hesitation. As far as the asbestos is concerned, the little these brakes are used now with respect to yesteryear, I can't see a whole lot of
pollution coming from the brake linings. Just my opinion on this.

Basically it's up to you as to how you handle your situation. But, I don't argue with success.

Edited by Viper Guy 2020-10-23 12:13 PM
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wizard
Posted 2020-10-23 1:58 PM (#604825 - in reply to #604759)
Subject: Re: Center Plane Brakes Locking Up



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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island
I still have the original brake shoes on my car, never changed, still plenty of material to go. No problems at all.

When I do the yearly check-up, theres very little dust in the brake shields and drum, drums still perfect. Asbestos is dangerous, yes indeed, but not so grave if you do the work with respect for the risks and once a year. Much worse for the ones that once produced, adapted, glued and radius grinded the brake shoes.
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mobileparts
Posted 2020-10-24 12:47 PM (#604872 - in reply to #604759)
Subject: Re: Center Plane Brakes Locking Up


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Just a thought.....
For all those who are crying about Asbestos Brake Shoes --
I would bet that a lot of what you stuff into your mouth on a daily
basis is --- far more deadly !!!!!!
Just a thought.......
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-10-24 2:40 PM (#604879 - in reply to #604872)
Subject: Re: Center Plane Brakes Locking Up



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
mobileparts - 2020-10-24 9:47 AM
For all those who are crying about Asbestos Brake Shoes --
I would bet that a lot of what you stuff into your mouth on a daily
basis is --- far more deadly


Two words:

pleural mesothelioma

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