The Forward Look Network
The Forward Look Network
Search | Statistics | User Listing Forums | Chat | eBay | Calendars | Albums | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

High Volume Oil Pump Questions
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Forward Look Technical Discussions -> Engine, Exhaust, Fuel and IgnitionMessage format
 
samstrader
Posted 2020-10-30 3:57 PM (#605078)
Subject: High Volume Oil Pump Questions


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 443
10010010010025
Location: Beaumont TX
This question is for a 1955 Plymouth 259 V8 with a 3 speed manual transmission.

Does anyone have experience installing a high volume oil pump on the 1955 V8 blocks? Will they fit up right and will the oil pan still fit? I've seen some pictures and the high volume pumps look a lot bulkier.

What high volume oil pump would you recommend for a 1955 V8?

I have talked to Hot Heads and theirs may might not work with the oil pan.

If you buy a new higher volume oil pump, do you have to set the relief pressure or does it come preset for you? I know how to adjust the relief spring pressure but don't know how to set it up from scratch because you would have to spin the pump in oil and monitor a pressure gauge. Not sure what kind of set up this would take..

Are there any other concerns to consider when going to a higher volume pump???

Thanks,

Sam
Top of the page Bottom of the page
57chizler
Posted 2020-10-31 1:44 PM (#605121 - in reply to #605078)
Subject: RE: High Volume Oil Pump Questions



Expert

Posts: 3768
200010005001001002525
Location: NorCal
Why do you want a HV pump? If your warm oil pressure is within the accepted range, changing to a HV pump will do nothing but produce a parasitic loss.

HV pumps generally come with a high-pressure relief spring.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Shep
Posted 2020-10-31 1:59 PM (#605122 - in reply to #605121)
Subject: RE: High Volume Oil Pump Questions



Expert

Posts: 3393
20001000100100100252525
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George)
Agreed.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
samstrader
Posted 2020-10-31 8:33 PM (#605137 - in reply to #605078)
Subject: Re: High Volume Oil Pump Questions


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 443
10010010010025
Location: Beaumont TX
The reason for the high volume pump is this. And I'm assuming the relief spring will be set at 50 PSI like current one is designed.

I get this knock when the engine is idling and the oil is warm. With low RPM and hot oil, my oil pressure is just above the lower normal oil pressure bar on the gauge. If I had a higher volume pump, I would have more oil flow when the engine is idling and therefore, higher oil pressure, hopefully enough oil pressure to stop the knock.

I also get this knock when accelerating in first and second gear when taking the RPM up higher, but not real high.

I'm just trying to figure out how to stop the knock without pulling the crank. I am also thinking right now about replacing the rod bearings even though they plastigage at .0015 inches, which is at the high end of the desired gap, hoping I get a little clearance reduction and may stop the knock.

What do you think about this thinking about the higher volume oil pump and replacing the rod bearings???
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2020-11-01 9:27 AM (#605160 - in reply to #605078)
Subject: Re: High Volume Oil Pump Questions



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7385
50002000100100100252525
Location: northern germany
After (back then) 30+ years and a dislike for "rebuild" engines, naturally I only dealt with very high mileage cars and the first thing I always did is to install a high pressure/volume oil pump, it will keep the engine alive longer with increased bearing clearances.
I have the habit to crank the engine until oil pressure is present when cold, before I start it and the bigger oil pumps cut the cranking time noticeable! 95+% percent of engine wear occurs during starts and this is when a bigger oil pump helps.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
wayfarer
Posted 2020-11-01 11:46 AM (#605168 - in reply to #605078)
Subject: Re: High Volume Oil Pump Questions



Elite Veteran

Posts: 888
500100100100252525
Location: Peoples Republic of Oregon
There really aren't any 'high-volume' pumps for the 259. Yes, an adapter is available for the 340 HV pump but I would certainly never recommend it. There are better options like the Melling M50, which is nearly a bolt-on.
If you are convinced that more oil is the answer then first try using a heavier grade of oil.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Shep
Posted 2020-11-01 11:58 AM (#605169 - in reply to #605168)
Subject: Re: High Volume Oil Pump Questions



Expert

Posts: 3393
20001000100100100252525
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George)
In my experience .0015 rod bearing clearance, in itself, will not cause bearing knocks.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
samstrader
Posted 2020-11-01 2:19 PM (#605174 - in reply to #605078)
Subject: RE: High Volume Oil Pump Questions


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 443
10010010010025
Location: Beaumont TX
Thanks Sid, I like the idea of cranking until you get some oil pressure too. I crank my engine after an oil change until I get good oil pressure before starting it up. I think the dry starts are really bad for an engine. It's good that the high volume pump reduces the cranking time it takes to get good oil pressure. That verifies the oil pump really is a higher volume pump. I'm wanting to change out my oil pump anyway so if I can buy a high volume pump that will fit, it won't cost very much more at all for me right now.

Thanks Dave, I agree .0015 clearance shouldn't cause a rod knock noise. I'll post some pictures of my rod bearings. I think a rod knock would beat up a rod bearing a little and I don't think I see any damage to the rod bearings. If you see some damage in the pictures, please let me know. I do have excessive side clearance on the rods. The spec is .006 to .014 and my side clearances are .025, .024, .021 and .021 for the 4 journals. So maybe this is my knock. I think more oil might help a side clearance knock if that is what I have. I'm pretty sure a higher viscosity oil would help because the knock is no there when the engine and the oil are cold. But I'm already using Mobil 1 15W15 oil. I've been told to try straight 30W and I will.

Thanks Gary, I am going to get the measurements from Hot Heads and double verify if their pump will fit. They told me I might have to beat a dent into my oil pan to make it fit. I'm not too excited about that. But thank you for the website information. I really like the idea of an adapter for a LA engine. I'm just about ready to go there because of all of the trouble this has given me. I'm pretty sure parts are much more available for LA engines. I'll look at the Melling 50 pump for sure and since it is almost a direct bolt up, that is real good. I'm going to try straight 30W oil vs the 15W50 I'm using to see if it helps reduce the knock. I do know for certain that the knock was reduced when I went from 10W30 to 15W50. I'm going to study the website you sent. Thanks!!!



(Rod.jpg)



(Rod 3.jpg)



(Rod 8.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Rod.jpg (239KB - 181 downloads)
Attachments Rod 3.jpg (237KB - 177 downloads)
Attachments Rod 8.jpg (239KB - 173 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Shep
Posted 2020-11-01 3:12 PM (#605177 - in reply to #605174)
Subject: Re: High Volume Oil Pump Questions



Expert

Posts: 3393
20001000100100100252525
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George)
The obvious wear on the outer portion of the bearings could point to inconsistent journal diameter caused by improper machining, plenty of samples of this on the net. This would make sense if all the rod bearings displayed this pattern. The journal should be miked at point of wear and at the center, which looks good.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
samstrader
Posted 2020-11-01 8:32 PM (#605190 - in reply to #605078)
Subject: Re: High Volume Oil Pump Questions


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 443
10010010010025
Location: Beaumont TX
Thanks Dave, I can tell from the plastigage on the 3 that are worn a little on the edge that the journal or the bearing is a little bit off. Best reading I get with plasitgage is the middle is .0002 smaller on the crank. The coating on these bearings is very thin. Maybe .0001 or less. 5 of the bearings were almost completely flat based on the plastigage. Bearing R3 is almost completely flat all the way across. I don't know what this coating is. These bearings came with the full engine rebuild kit. I don't know what brand it was. I'll look on the internet for pictures of what is good and what is bad. Just trying to decide if I should replace these bearings or not.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Shep
Posted 2020-11-02 1:04 PM (#605218 - in reply to #605078)
Subject: Re: High Volume Oil Pump Questions



Expert

Posts: 3393
20001000100100100252525
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George)
Not till you determine the cause of that wear pattern, the soft overlay should not be worn away as shown.

Edited by Shep 2020-11-02 2:19 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
samstrader
Posted 2020-11-02 1:13 PM (#605219 - in reply to #605078)
Subject: Re: High Volume Oil Pump Questions


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 443
10010010010025
Location: Beaumont TX
Thanks Dave, I agree. If I have to pull the crank, which is what I think is really required to fix this right, I'll go to the next size on all of the main and rod bearings and I'll spec to the machinist what diameter to grind the bearings. Might have to get a different crank and start over since my rod bearing side clearance is too big.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Shep
Posted 2020-11-02 2:18 PM (#605224 - in reply to #605078)
Subject: Re: High Volume Oil Pump Questions



Expert

Posts: 3393
20001000100100100252525
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George)
Did he machine the rod side flanks or the crank journal flank areas? If not, how did they get this way, never saw that much rod side clearance on a stock engine.

Edited by Shep 2020-11-02 2:21 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
samstrader
Posted 2020-11-02 3:23 PM (#605227 - in reply to #605078)
Subject: Re: High Volume Oil Pump Questions


Extreme Veteran

Posts: 443
10010010010025
Location: Beaumont TX
Hi Dave, I don't know if the sides were machined or bumped accidentally. I'll pull two rod bearings on one journal and check to see if I can tell if they were ground down. The rod cap edges looked perfect, I do remember this
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread

* * * This site contains affiliate links for which we may be compensated * * *


(Delete all cookies set by this site)