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57 Super D500. What do we know about them? Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
Forward Look NON-Technical Discussions -> 1955-1961 Forward Look MoPar General Discussion | Message format |
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | To get this started let me try to post an image of a 57 Dodge punch card that Dave F posted quite some time ago. Greg | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Try again! Greg (image.jpg) Attachments ---------------- image.jpg (174KB - 179 downloads) | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | When I saw it I contacted Dave to ask about the car and as I recall, he said the image was just that and part of a collection of punch card images he had. He had no knowledge of the actual car. Let's examine it: Definitely a Hemi car (KD 500) but not coded as "372" so it is not a D500. It is typed as 491, and card column 49 is punched at the "1" level. Neil and I had already established, at least to our satisfaction, that Sales Order Code 49- was Super D. So, I was sure there was a Super D out there that was as yet unknown to us/me! Fast forward a number of months and a fellow member here sent me info on a car that he was looking at for me to evaluate. Well guys here she is! I'll try to send pics next post. Greg | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Pics of the actual car. Greg (image.jpg) (image.jpg) (image.jpg) (image.jpg) Attachments ---------------- image.jpg (246KB - 222 downloads) image.jpg (182KB - 173 downloads) image.jpg (228KB - 169 downloads) image.jpg (143KB - 166 downloads) | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | More pics. (image.jpg) Attachments ---------------- image.jpg (228KB - 166 downloads) | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9604 Location: So. Cal | Interesting. So you are saying that a super D500 was not coded as a D500. | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't see anything in that interior that isn't factory! When was the last time anyone saw factory carpet that good?! It is coded as having a push button radio but, in fact, it has a search tune one but other than that -----? I would say that it has had a careless exterior repaint and by the look of the right door bottom etc I would suspect some rust repair. Check it all out guys. I want any/all input! Greg | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Powerflite - 2020-11-01 12:02 AM Interesting. So you are saying that a super D500 was not coded as a D500. Yeah, for sure. They were simply an engine option. So different sales codes. No other body/chassis differences. Both engines had hydraulic lifters. Same carbs as a Fury, just jetted differently. This ALL is interesting stuff. Very few were built. Please, everyone contribute if you have hands on experience with these cars. Greg | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Powerflite - 2020-11-01 12:02 AM Interesting. So you are saying that a super D500 was not coded as a D500. Nathan, please look at it this way. Sales codes are used to identify options etc and to trigger invoices. If a Super D was coded as a D500, the 2X4bbl setup would have been free! Greg | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | I should mention that the body plate for that car is missing. Probably removed at the time of repaint and lost. But, since we have the birth certificate it really doesn't matter but we do know that the body plate does not differentuate between D500 and Super Ds. Greg | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Here are pics of the 2X4 set up and intake as well as a carb tag. Greg (image.jpg) (image.jpg) Attachments ---------------- image.jpg (133KB - 172 downloads) image.jpg (86KB - 171 downloads) | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9604 Location: So. Cal | Aluminum Offenhauser intake! The vacuum port for the brake looks correct. Not sure about the return spring bracket. Edited by Powerflite 2020-11-01 1:08 AM | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9854 Location: Lower Mainland BC | LD3 Greg - 2020-10-31 10:02 PM Here are pics of the 2X4 set up and intake as well as a carb tag. Although the 55-58 Mopar Parts Catalog does list a 2634S as PN 1821 884 (WCFB-2634 S) and the WCFB-2633 S as PN 1821 883 in the Carter Section of the VENDOR NUMBER CROSS REFERENCE LIST (Page CAR-X2), in the 1955-58 Mopar Parts catalog, there is no application listing, i.e. 57 Super D500, in the carburetor section. (??) In contrast, the 55-58 Catalog does list a 2631S as the PN 1821 709 as the 1957 and 1958 Fury Front carburetor and a 2632S as PN 1821 710 as the 1957 and 1958 Fury rear carburetor. (See below) Based on the history of the 56 D500 2 x 4 bbl manifold and it being built in limited numbers (< 100) by Mercury Marine (because Dodge had porous casting issues) and Kiekhaefer being P'd at Chrysler (and Dodge), I wouldn't be surprised that Offenhauser got the call for the 57 Super D500 2 x 4bbl manifold. (I can not find any PNs for that manifold for 1957). As for 491 = Super D-500, at least on the broadcast sheet, I think you (Greg) and Neil had established that some time ago. Subsequently a 57 Dodge broadcast sheet has been posted here before (See below). Whether the 491 on the Broadcast sheet translated directly to the cowl data tags, I don't know. Edited by 56D500boy 2020-11-01 3:17 PM (57PlymouthAndDodgeDual4bblCarbPNs_1.jpg) (57PlymouthDual4bblCarbPNs_2.jpg) (58PlymouthFuryDual4bblCarbPNs.jpg) (ictfatboys57DodgeBuildSheet_turned.jpg) (ictfatboys57DodgeBuildSheet_CleanedAndAnnotated.jpg) (NeilAndGregs57DodgeBuildSheet_Turned.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 57PlymouthAndDodgeDual4bblCarbPNs_1.jpg (198KB - 167 downloads) 57PlymouthDual4bblCarbPNs_2.jpg (182KB - 174 downloads) 58PlymouthFuryDual4bblCarbPNs.jpg (162KB - 174 downloads) ictfatboys57DodgeBuildSheet_turned.jpg (148KB - 173 downloads) ictfatboys57DodgeBuildSheet_CleanedAndAnnotated.jpg (225KB - 168 downloads) NeilAndGregs57DodgeBuildSheet_Turned.jpg (190KB - 180 downloads) | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9604 Location: So. Cal | One air cleaner lid is flat and the other is beveled. Must have lost one and replaced it? | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Powerflite - 2020-11-01 5:01 PM One air cleaner lid is flat and the other is beveled. Must have lost one and replaced it? I noticed that. It looks to me that the car was rather carelessly serviced/repaired but certainly preserved! I understand that the old boy who owns/owned it knew exactly what he had, called it "numbers matching" and priced it very high. Greg | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Here are carburetor and distributor specs. Greg (image.jpg) (image.jpg) Attachments ---------------- image.jpg (146KB - 162 downloads) image.jpg (204KB - 164 downloads) | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | While I was looking I found these D500 specs that someone might like. Greg (image.jpg) (image.jpg) Attachments ---------------- image.jpg (187KB - 166 downloads) image.jpg (178KB - 157 downloads) | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9854 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . Thanks for posting those up Greg. Lots of good info in them, including the Super D500 carb numbers, i.e. 2633S (Front) and 2634S (Rear). Here are those pages a bit bigger and brighter: (57D500IgnitionSpecsFromGregL_1.jpg) (57-58D500CarburetorPNListings.jpg) (57D500TSB_TuneUpSpecs_1.jpg) (57D500TSB_TuneUpSpecs_2.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 57D500IgnitionSpecsFromGregL_1.jpg (137KB - 161 downloads) 57-58D500CarburetorPNListings.jpg (205KB - 159 downloads) 57D500TSB_TuneUpSpecs_1.jpg (156KB - 164 downloads) 57D500TSB_TuneUpSpecs_2.jpg (150KB - 164 downloads) | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9854 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . Not sure where I found this originally but I found it in one of my electronic folders as a 2 page pdf. Here it is as two jpgs: (57DodgeOffenhauserBrochure_1.jpg) (57DodgeOffenhauserBrochure_2.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 57DodgeOffenhauserBrochure_1.jpg (140KB - 168 downloads) 57DodgeOffenhauserBrochure_2.jpg (108KB - 153 downloads) | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9604 Location: So. Cal | Cool, first time I have seen literature that specifically says the Offenhauser manifold was used by the Dodge factory. Thanks! | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9854 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Powerflite - 2020-11-02 7:54 AM Cool, first time I have seen literature that specifically says the Offenhauser manifold was used by the Dodge factory. And the one in the photo, on the car, looks like the one in the period brochure, as opposed to the later 315/325 re-issue. (57DodgeOffenhauserBrochure_1_Detail.jpg) (Offenhauser3614For315and325DodgeHemiEngines_small.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 57DodgeOffenhauserBrochure_1_Detail.jpg (72KB - 167 downloads) Offenhauser3614For315and325DodgeHemiEngines_small.jpg (57KB - 171 downloads) | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9604 Location: So. Cal | You got fooled by a stock image of some random intake. That isn't how they look and has the wrong bolt pattern. I don't think the castings have changed at all since 1957. Here is a picture from Hot Heads. (Hot Heads 50012.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Hot Heads 50012.jpg (21KB - 165 downloads) | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | 56D500boy - 2020-11-02 11:34 AM Powerflite - 2020-11-02 7:54 AM Cool, first time I have seen literature that specifically says the Offenhauser manifold was used by the Dodge factory. And the one in the photo, on the car, looks like the one in the period brochure, as opposed to the later 315/325 re-issue. Yes. Thanks for the Offenhauser info! Greg | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Powerflite - 2020-11-02 11:46 AM You got fooled by a stock image of some random intake. That isn't how they look and has the wrong bolt pattern. I don't think the castings have changed at all since 1957. Here is a picture from Hot Heads. I was told, years ago, that the later Offenhauser manifolds for the 315/325 had a larger "capital" O. I agree, the second one doesn't look correct. Greg | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9854 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Powerflite - 2020-11-02 8:46 AM You got fooled by a stock image of some random intake. That isn't how they look and has the wrong bolt pattern. I don't think the castings have changed at all since 1957. Here is a picture from Hot Heads. Agree. I noticed the intake runner spacing and the water outlet on that Summit Racing catalog photo just as I hit [SUBMIT] on my post but I couldn't find a better photo. I just tried calling Offenhauser in LA (Offenhauser Sales Corp, 5300 Alhambra Avenue, Los Angeles, CA 90032, Phone: (323) 225-1307) but only got voice mail. I tried sending an email (via a webpage) but their system is F'kd. Found their catalog and pg. 28: https://offenhauser.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Offenhauser-Catalo... Hmm.... 1987. I guess they haven't needed to update it for awhile. Page 28 has this: Edited by 56D500boy 2020-11-02 12:58 PM (Pg28OfTheOffenhauserCatalog.jpg) (Pg28OfTheOffenhauserCatalog_Detail.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Pg28OfTheOffenhauserCatalog.jpg (130KB - 147 downloads) Pg28OfTheOffenhauserCatalog_Detail.jpg (47KB - 156 downloads) | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Here is a Coronet that Neil documented years ago that he felt was a factory Super D. The photos are very old photos of photos of photos etc of his images! Our chart that he filled out shows all the info on the body plate in the correct layout. The punch card copies available in those days were very little more than ink blots!! Note the odd looking coil bracket. Greg | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Here is a probable 57 Coronet Super D tha Neil documented many years ago. I say probable because the punch cards available then were little more than ink blots! Neil was sure it was a factory Super D and he had connections at Chrysler, whatever that means. This is a copy of our chart that he filled out and it shows all the body plate info in it's correct format. Greg (image.jpg) Attachments ---------------- image.jpg (191KB - 152 downloads) | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Neil's photos. They are very old photos of photos of photos. Note the odd looking coil bracket for a non power brake, non power steering car. Not sure how many of these I can post at once? Greg (image.jpg) (image.jpg) (image.jpg) (image.jpg) (image.jpg) (image.jpg) Attachments ---------------- image.jpg (119KB - 153 downloads) image.jpg (119KB - 154 downloads) image.jpg (125KB - 157 downloads) image.jpg (157KB - 153 downloads) image.jpg (173KB - 156 downloads) image.jpg (173KB - 154 downloads) | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | More. (image.jpg) (image.jpg) (image.jpg) (image.jpg) (image.jpg) (image.jpg) (image.jpg) (image.jpg) Attachments ---------------- image.jpg (140KB - 156 downloads) image.jpg (158KB - 143 downloads) image.jpg (128KB - 143 downloads) image.jpg (151KB - 154 downloads) image.jpg (146KB - 151 downloads) image.jpg (188KB - 147 downloads) image.jpg (173KB - 150 downloads) image.jpg (192KB - 156 downloads) | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Here is the same car some years later after undergoing a metamorphosis! Now a red and white CRL, actually quite nicely done! Much better photos, but still film, this time around. Better pics of the coil bracket. Nathan, note the rear carb return spring bracket. Greg | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Here is the same car some years later after undergoing a metamorphosis! Now a red and white CRL, actually quite nicely done! Much better photos, but still film, this time around. Better pics of the coil bracket. Nathan, note the rear carb return spring bracket. Greg | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Sorry, not very good at this! Greg (image.jpg) (image.jpg) (image.jpg) (image.jpg) (image.jpg) (image.jpg) Attachments ---------------- image.jpg (153KB - 136 downloads) image.jpg (154KB - 143 downloads) image.jpg (117KB - 138 downloads) image.jpg (118KB - 138 downloads) image.jpg (124KB - 141 downloads) image.jpg (118KB - 144 downloads) | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | The coil bracket looks to me like this one off a D501? (image.jpg) Attachments ---------------- image.jpg (135KB - 141 downloads) | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | LD3 Greg - 2020-11-02 9:15 PM The coil bracket looks to me like this one off a D501? I hadn't noticed those oil dumps before so this is probably off a 392. The bracket just located differently. Greg | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9604 Location: So. Cal | That valve cover is for a Dodge motor, not a Chrysler. So I would guess that the coil bracket is specific to the Super D500. The 300D also put the coil bracket on the valve cover, but in a different location. The oil holes are there for an original A/C car and were included on the Dodge hemi as well. Edited by Powerflite 2020-11-02 9:23 PM | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Powerflite - 2020-11-02 9:21 PM That valve cover is for a Dodge motor, not a Chrysler. So I would guess that the coil bracket is specific to the Super D500. The 300D also put the coil bracket on the valve cover, but in a different location. The oil holes are there for an original A/C car and were included on the Dodge hemi as well. Thanks, Nathan. I have no idea where I got that photo! A Super D with A/C. I'll buy it!! Greg | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | This ALL is interesting stuff. Very few were built. Please, everyone contribute if you have hands on experience with these cars. Greg I've never seen a production number given for the Super D-500 in 1957, but Jeffrey Godshall indicates there wer 17,782 D-500s built in 1957 which includes Super D-500s. Perhaps these issues associated with the build sheets are why production numbers for the Super D-500 may not be known. | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Lancer Mike - 2020-11-02 9:34 PM This ALL is interesting stuff. Very few were built. Please, everyone contribute if you have hands on experience with these cars. Greg I've never seen a production number given for the Super D-500 in 1957, but Jeffrey Godshall indicates there wer 17,782 D-500s built in 1957 which includes Super D-500s. Perhaps these issues associated with the build sheets are why production numbers for the Super D-500 may not be known. Mike. It is a puzzle. The factory didn't seem to care much about Super Ds. Most 57 broadcast sheets name box 49 as Desoto moulding etc. The broadcast sheets that show box 49 as Super D don't even get a different part number or a revision date. Just look like "corrections" to the standard. The punch cards label box 49 as Desoto something! And, this is not an early/late thing. Our two examples are May and June! They knew what they were doing by then! They look to me like, OK, ho-hum here is an order, let's just build one! One would think that if they even had a list of them Jeffrey would have found it! Greg | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9854 Location: Lower Mainland BC | LD3 Greg - 2020-11-02 5:44 PM This is a copy of our chart that he filled out and it shows all the body plate info in it's correct format. I have tried to make a slightly better version of that form Greg. (??) Edited by 56D500boy 2020-11-02 11:14 PM (NeilAndGregs1957DodgeIDRegistryForm_CoronetSuperD500.jpg) Attachments ---------------- NeilAndGregs1957DodgeIDRegistryForm_CoronetSuperD500.jpg (228KB - 142 downloads) | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | 56D500boy - 2020-11-02 11:11 PM LD3 Greg - 2020-11-02 5:44 PM This is a copy of our chart that he filled out and it shows all the body plate info in it's correct format. I have tried to make a slightly better version of that form Greg. (??) Thanks, Dave, that is readable. I should have got a better image of it to post! Can you do anything with some of those horrible engine pics I sent? Greg | ||
frwl |
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Expert Posts: 1876 | . Is that a Royal? I thought the 2586 is a Custom Royal (1.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 1.jpg (182KB - 143 downloads) | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | frwl - 2020-11-03 9:12 AM . Is that a Royal? I thought the 2586 is a Custom Royal No. They lost the word Custom! Greg | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9854 Location: Lower Mainland BC | LD3 Greg - 2020-11-02 8:21 PM Thanks, Dave, that is readable. I should have got a better image of it to post! Can you do anything with some of those horrible engine pics I sent? Photos of those photos makes it tough to improve them because of the glare. Do you own a scanner? Scanning to jpgs would help. | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | 56D500boy - 2020-11-04 3:53 PM LD3 Greg - 2020-11-02 8:21 PM Thanks, Dave, that is readable. I should have got a better image of it to post! Can you do anything with some of those horrible engine pics I sent? Photos of those photos makes it tough to improve them because of the glare. Do you own a scanner? Scanning to jpgs would help. :) Leave it with me for a few days, I'll see if a friend can help. Greg | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9604 Location: So. Cal | Most newer printers have a scanning capability. Just plug in a USB stick and scan to it. | ||
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