Re: IML: Torsion Bar Front Suspension

[Christopher H <imperial67@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Title: Re: IML: Torsion Bar Front Suspension

Torsion bars have numerous advantages, some of them realized and some of them not in the vehicles with which they have been used.

They allow a low hoodline, crisp response and a smooth ride for a subcompact car, as in the 84-87 Honda Civic and CRX.

They are remarkably rugged yet provide a smooth, compliant ride, which is why they were used in SUVs such as the 92-on Isuzu Trooper and 98-05 Mercedes-Benz M-Class (a European design even if it was built in Alabama).

They are easily adjustable, whether manually or automatically, which is why Packard used them for their Torsion Level system in the 1950s.

And among domestic cars, they provided the best handling setup of all luxury cars for decades. This was the opinion of the most respected automotive journalists.

Did a 1967 Imperial handle better than a 1967 Mercedes S-Class? Yes and no. First of all, the European cars were far smaller and lighter. But while the MB design provided more responsive feedback, it not only compromised ride to do so, but also provided some pretty scary handling characteristics in certain situations thanks to its swing-axle rear design that allowed an enormous amount of camber change in the rear wheels. And as for “any luxury car made outside of the United States until recently,” have you ever driven a domestic-market Japanese luxury car like a Toyota Century? Or one from the 1957-78 era of Chrysler’s full-size cars with torsion bars? Not pretty!  :)

If you want to take a car of similar size to a 1960s US luxury car, the closest thing is a Mercedes 600, a giant limo with an air suspension, and as capable as they are, I assure you the Imperial, at half the cost, was the more enjoyable car to drive on a winding American road at typical American driving speeds.

Keep in mind, also, that the torsion bars are merely the spring element of a suspension. They can be matched with numerous overall suspension configurations  with different benefits and different results, and at different costs. Honda abandoned theirs (which were paired with double wishbones) for MacPherson struts purely based on cost, but see if you can find enthusiast magazine who praised the change as an improvement, whether to handling or to the loss of their once-signature ultra-low cowl and hoodline.

But the bigger question, and answer, is simply that virtually all designs offer some advantages and some disadvantages, and some of those are outside the obvious. Such as the packaging benefits of a compact suspension, or their durability, or simply how easy they were to set up right. Or whatever. But it often just comes down to what a person likes... To work on, to drive, to feel, or just to brag about by name (hence all those ill-fated air suspensions in the late 1950s, not to mention the misleading “Aire” in Chrysler’s Torsion Aire suspension). And so, big surprise, a lot of Imperial owners like them because they are Imperials: the finest example of Chrysler engineering...for those of us who love Chrysler engineering!

Chris in LA
67 Crown
78 NYB Salon
And I once had an all-torsion-bar fleet (but not all Chryslers)


On 7/20/06 8:23 PM, randalpark@xxxxxxx at randalpark@xxxxxxx wrote:

My friend, the Torsion Bar front suspension system is the single most important characteristic that makes driving an Imperial the unique and desirable experience that it is. Apparently, you have never owned/driven one or you wouldn't have made that statement.
 
A 1963 Imperial in top shape with the right tires can out handle any large sedan built in the world. While I think your comment has come from a lack of experience, my "broad sweeping statement" is based on over 1,750,000 miles of driving many different cars, including several different years of Imperials. I will grant you that if the car is not in top condition, it is a nightmare to drive, but they were not designed to be driven and not maintained.
 
I don't need/want to convince you of anything here. It is very plain that until you drive one, you will never know how wrong you are.
 
Paul W.
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: baker-michaels@xxxxxxx
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: IML: Why choose ...wait one second...

I don't agree with you, but that is what makes the world go around. If the torsion bar suspension was so superior why didn't any European cars use it to make their cars handle better. It is known around the world that pretty much any Luxury brand made outside of the United States (until recently) will out handle almost any Chrysler Corp car with the torsion bar suspension. We don't buy these American Luxury cars of the 50's, 60's and 70's to throw through a slalom. We buy them comfort and cruising down the highway. As I said and will repeat, What you feel is superior someone else might not. What works for one person doesn't work for the other. Buy what you like and leave everyone else to buy and appreciate what they like. Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: randalpark@xxxxxxx <_javascript_:parent.ComposeTo('randalpark@xxxxxxx');>  
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <_javascript_:parent.ComposeTo('mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx');>  
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: IML: Why choose ...wait one second...

How a cars drives and handles may be personal taste, but the torsion bar front suspension on our Imperials was/is superior to the front coils on the other two cars, hands down. That is a fact, and there is nothing else to say about it.
 
There was nothing in the post putting down anyone's car, unless you think a spinach salad or a maple bar have something on each other. My point was that there is basically no comparison between an '80s Imperial and a '60s Lincoln, other than the fact that they are both automobiles. I have driven Lincoln's for years, but still believe that the Imperials from 1957 onward handle better than anything comparable built in America.
 
Paul W.  
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: baker-michaels@xxxxxxx
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: IML: Why choose ...wait one second...

How the car drives and handles is a personal taste. And read my comments, I wasn't comparing. I was stating I own those vehicles. That's all. If Chrysler and Imperial was so much better then why didn't they sell as well. Buy what you like and Don't put down the other makes as inferior because you think they are. STOP THIS> Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: randalpark@xxxxxxx
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 6:02 AM
Subject: Re: IML: Why choose ...wait one second...

No Imperial is better than any Lincoln or Cadillac?? How can anyone make such a sweeping statement? Comparing a '60s Lincoln to an '80s Imperial is like comparing a spinach salad to a maple bar.
 
I submit that there are Imperials that were better, if only from an engineering standpoint. The single most important difference between our cars and the others was the suspension system. These cars clearly had the advantage over the competition in that area. To many, the most important feature of any car is how it drives, and that is where the Imperial EXCELLED.

Paul W.
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: baker-michaels@xxxxxxx
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: IML: Why choose Imperial over Caddy or Lincoln?

Actually I am truly tired of this thread, but the only reason to buy any car you buy is because it is what suits you. I happen to prefer Lincoln Continental over any luxury car, but, I have had Imperials of all vintages and they are incredible too, but Lincoln is what suits me better. I still own an 81 and an 83 Imperial which to me of the Luxury cars of the period were the nicest, but talk about troubled vehicles???????. My 69 Lincoln Continental Coupe, 4DR sedan, and Mark III are the most trouble free, smooth quiet, comfortable and powerful of any cars I have ever had. No Imperial is any better than any Lincoln or Cadillac if taken care of properly. It is just what suits the specific needs of the driver. I love them all Fomoco and Mopar preferably, but what works for me doesn't work for the next guy. Buy and enjoy what makes you happy and don't put down the others because they are not wh at works for you. Bob Baker

1957 Continental Mark II
1957 Thunderbird
1957 Ford Fairlane 500 2Dr, 4Dr, Sunliner, Ranchero, Country Squire
1963 Studebaker Hawk GT
1969 Continental Coupe, 4Dr, Mark III
1981and 83 Chrysler Imperial
and sold yesterday 1960 Imperial Crown Southampton 2Dr

----- Original Message -----
From: anthony romano
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: IML: Why choose Imperial over Caddy or Lincoln?

One common theme about Why Imperial over the competition is that we've all been bitten and hooked by it's Elegance/mystique. My story goes like this; My dad was looking to replace his 66 Chry. Newport. We walked around as a family in the Chrysler lot and I sat in the back of a 1973 Imperial. I thought I was in a space capsule and we were about to take  off. We didn't by the car but I was bitten. My Father opted for a 73 caddy that yr., but I never forgot my experience as you can tell. I've bought and sold a 1973 Imperial and now have 3-Imperials 91,93,93. I know their not vintage like everyone else , but to me I get the same High when I drive her down and around town -Anthony
 
P.s. -Lets not forget that if you own a Chevy or a Ford back in the day, you were considered to be a driving a working man's car. But to own a Chrysler- You were considered making- Agreed!

----- Original Message -----
From: wardle65@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: IML: Why choose Imperial over Caddy or Lincoln?

I chose mine because I wanted something different from a cadillac and in Australia there are so many Cadillacs.  I also wanted a Chrysler Corp car with a long wheel base and have always dreamed of owning a hemi car.  I have owned mine for about 6 months and I love the drive and power of my Imperial.  

In saying all that I am still a classic car enthusiast and can appreciate any classic car on it's merits but I have a slant towards the Chrysler Corp.     

Chris Wardle
1958 Imperail Crown 2dr

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