Re: IML: 1960 Imperial Brake Pedal Hieght

[PAUL WENTINK <randalpark@xxxxxxx>]

Richard is correct in that the booster is not connected to the master 
cylinder on '56 through '61 Imperials.

On these cars, the booster is added to the top of the pedal assembly 
and provides power assist. The last statement of my previous post would 
apply to 1962 and newer, since the master cylinder is attached to the 
front of the brake booster. On these cars I believe that there is an 
adjustment on the rod between the booster and the master cylinder. All 
of this is spelled out in the FSM for the specific year of Imperial 
being addressed.

Whether we are discussing the early style or late style, the amount of 
rod adjustment would be very small, and should not be necessary if the 
correct OEM parts are used. If there is too much pedal travel under 
these circumstances, I think that something else needs attention.

There is a factory specification for push rod adjustment in relation to 
the master cylinder cup, as it is critical to the correct operation of 
the brakes.

Paul W.


-----Original Message-----
From: PAUL WENTINK <randalpark@xxxxxxx>
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 3:23 am
Subject: Re: IML: 1960 Imperial Brake Pedal Hieght


They were adjusted for the original parts. If your car has been fitted 
with non-stock items, such as a dual reservoir M/C you may indeed have 
the incorrect push rod length. Otherwise, I would suspect this to be 
unlikely. A brake booster replacement could result in a similar issue 
if the final adjustments were not made to spec. 
 
Paul W. 
 
Paul W. 
 
-----Original Message----- 
From: Rob van der Es <r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:56 am 
Subject: Re: IML: 1960 Imperial Brake Pedal Hieght 
 
Allright Paul,  
  
I agree with you, but don't forget that these rods are adjustable for a 
reason!  
Btw, I think that the rod must be made a little longer to make the 
brakes more responsive!  
Shortening the rod will cause a longer pedal travel, is my idea!  
  
All the best,  
  
Robert  
  
----- Original Message ----- From: "PAUL WENTINK" <randalpark@xxxxxxx>  
To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 3:05 AM  
Subject: Re: IML: 1960 Imperial Brake Pedal Hieght  
  
I am not one for changing things until I know what is causing the 
problem to begin with. On first blush, I would say the answer to your 
question would be no, since a more common problem would be the need for 
the normal scheduled adjustment or air in the lines. As far as I know, 
my cars have the original size rod, and the pedal is right up there 
where it belongs.  
  
Paul W.  
  
-----Original Message-----  
From: Rob van der Es <r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  
Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 5:57 am  
Subject: Re: IML: 1960 Imperial brake bleeding  
  
" I would say that if the pedal travels half way to the floor, its time 
to adjust the brakes, or possibly check other work"   
Hi Paul,   
with regard to your message, would it be a good idea to shorten that 
rod a little? You know, the one that Tom Scott mentioned in his 
reaction?   
Thanks,   
Robert   
----- Original Message ----- From: "PAUL WENTINK" <randalpark@xxxxxxx> 
To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 
2:46 PM Subject: Re: IML: 1960 Imperial brake bleeding   
The pedal my '60 Custom has very little travel, but doesn't grab. I can 
press it further to apply the brakes harder without locking up the 
wheels. Since the car has been in our family since it was new, I have 
been familiar with the amount of travel it should have. Also, that was 
the first car that I rebuilt the brakes on after my 20 year hiatus, and 
I used it's performance as the standard for the others.   
I would say that if the pedal travels half way to the floor, its time 
to adjust the brakes, or possibly check other work. If I remember 
correctly, the FSM recommends a brake adjustment every 1,500 miles. I 
also keep track of the amount of pedal required to light the stop 
lights. Since they are hydraulically activated, this can possibly be an 
indicator of a low fluid level or master cylinder problem.   
My '62 had a great deal of pedal travel, until I replaced the front 
backing plate assemblies. Everything else had been done. I noticed that 
upon adjustment, the pedal was high and firm, but within a few stops, 
it would go back to its old ways. No amount of bleeding or adjustment 
seemed to correct this. I finally decided that the adjusters were worn 
and backing off, so I replaced the backing plates. That seemed to 
correct the trouble. I believe the backing plates can be rebuilt, but 
so far I have managed to replace them with good used ones.   
Keep those brakes working perfectly!   
Paul W.   
-----Original Message----- From: Rob van der Es 
<r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tue, 
23 Oct 2007 1:46 am Subject: Re: IML: 1960 Imperial brake bleeding   
Thanks for sharing this Richard!,   
Your father is absolutely right, you need to adjust the cam adjusters 
(4 in the front and 2 in the rear) frequently to get a good working 
braking system.   
I have adjusted the way you father described it, and I must say I have 
a firm pedal that travel only halfway to the floor!   
Maybe the other 60 owners, Paul, Tom, Kenyon and Charles can jump in on 
this and tell us how much pedal travel they have?   
And since we are talking about 1960 Imps here, what is the correct 
reading for the temperature of our cars?   
Since the weather is almost freezing cold here, my car doesn't reach 
normal operating temperature. It just passed the Cold mark on the dial 
and thats about it. Since it is a Californian car I thought the former 
owner might have installed another termostat that opens earlier, so I 
checked it and I was right!   
The previous owner installed a 160 degrees thermostat!, I guess to 
prevent the car from overheating in hot Californian summers.   
I now have installed a 180 degrees thermostat (OEM standard 
temperature) and the needle on the gauge goes higher then ever before! 
It now stays exactly in the middle of the dial.   
Is this correct?   
I have never seen the needle climbed that high before, so I am a little 
worried allthough common sense tells me that the middle of the dial 
sounds quite good...   
Just curious to know the readings on other 1960 owners temperature 
gauges!   
Thanks,   
Robert   
----- Original Message -----   
From: richard burgess   
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; Kenyon Wills ; Larry Blomburg   
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 2:47 PM   
Subject: IML: 1960 Imperial brake bleeding   
Hi Folks,   
After spending countless hours working on the brakes on my '60 Crown 
they are finally working properly. I think we bled them entirely three 
times before getting everything repaired properly. The shop that 
"restored" my chasis did not double flare the brake lines correctly and 
had overtightened the flares at the bronze blocks creating distortion 
and leaks. We ended up replacing all of the lines again and the blocks 
as well, at the front frame and on top of the axle. The IML web site 
was helpful but did not really address the issue of pedal going to the 
floor. See below. Another tip, we elevated our brake bleeding bottle on 
a small step ladder, that really helped keeep the air from returning to 
the cylinders during the bleeding process. After all of this my father 
had this to say:   
  
For Imperial Club under "Repair" , "Brakes", "Brake Bleeding".   
The 1960 Imperial and like years brake systems can be perfectly bled 
and the pedal still go to the floor if the brake shoes are not adjusted 
to require minimal movement to brake the drum. The bottom line is that 
with six cylinders to provide fluid too, the master cylinder will be at 
the end of its stroke (to the floor) before the wheel cylinders have 
enough fluid (pressure) to push the shoes tight against the drums. 
Chrysler knew this, as in the Maintenance Manual under "Pedal goes to 
Floor" you (a) check fluid in master cylinder and (b) adjust for worn 
linings. The obvious implication is that it does not take much slack at 
the brake shoes to allow the pedal to go to the floor. With the shoes 
properly adjusted tight against the drum and just loosened enough to 
allow the wheel to turn freely you still will not have a firm pedal 
until you almost reach the floor. That's just the way it is. If you 
want to see this then tighten all the shoes against the drums and then 
see how much pedal you have. You cannot see this by pumping the pedal 
as the strong shoe return springs will push the fluid back out of the 
wheel cylinders faster than you can stroke the master cylinder. Adjust 
the shoes properly and frequently and you can get good braking.   
Richard Burgess   
'60 Crown   
  
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