57/58/59 brakes - Achilles heel

["Ernie Stepney" <estepney@xxxxxxxxx>]

The easiest way to bleed any brake system is with a vacuum bleeder which
pulls the fluid out at the wheels rather than forcing it through from
the master cylinder. I use one on every brake bleed at the shop and it
eliminates all the various adapters needed for the pressure type.
I just finished my 58 brakes and have a perfect pedal first time around.
By the way the 57 to 59 booster is 2 nuts and 2 bolts and a vacuum line,
I dare anybody to try to screw up the re and re, you don't even have to
bleed the brakes.

Ernie

-----Original Message-----
From: mailing-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mailing-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hugh & Therese
Sent: December 21, 2003 10:18 AM
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: IML: 57/58/59 brakes - Achilles heel


Paul wrote, in response to Bill,:


> I think the brake booster on the '59 Imperial is rather easy to 
> remove.
>
> Paul
>
Bill wrote:

 Your idea of bringing it to a local brake shop, and
> > then sending the unit out to Karps sounds very promising.


I surmise that what is easy for some is not for others.  We have
different strengths and weaknesses.  I agree with Paul as far as this -
removing the booster is indeed quite easy.  Taking the booster apart,
having acquired a new exterior, and putting it back together is also not
rocket science. However . . . this is really where the problem(s) begin.

I went to the web site and checked out the 1960s.  (Lovely cars, by the
way.)  I notice they have a better type of brake booster on them,
hopefully one that will allow more reasonable access to the master
cylinder.  The problem with the 57/58/59 era is that accessing the
master cylinder with a power bleeder is nigh on impossible.  For routine
maintenance, this is just a nettlesome quirk.  However it really becomes
a nightmare when it comes to bleeding the system when the master
cylinder is being reinstalled.  Someone, somewhere, out there has a
power bleeder that was designed to fit the round, single pot, master
cylinder that is situated bang right up close beneath the overhanging
bellows unit.  Unfortunately no one seems to know who this fortunate
individual is.

I have taken my car to brake shops that turned out to be unable to even
remove the hubs on the rear wheels, because they lacked the requisite
puller.  I have had another which did the whole job.  Almost.  They
could not bleed the brakes.  I had to get a wrecker to get my 'almost'
fixed car back to the museum.  With air in the brake lines it was too
unsafe to drive. I was a little beyond disgruntled about this, you may
be sure.  I have had more problems with the brakes on my 1958 than
everything else put together. They have been a recurring problem.
Rebuilt master cylinders have failed so frequently that I was obligated
to upgrade to a more modern, twin pot style, if only because I no longer
believe the single pot style can ever be said to be safe.  My car was in
an accident at 5 MPH when the brakes failed again. Regrettably, I ran
into the back of a Dodge pick up.  The difference in bumper height held
to huge damage to the Imperial even though the pick up was virtually
unscratched.

With the new master cylinder, from a Dodge of the mid 1960s that still
had all around drums, I was able to, at last, be able to power bleed my
brakes, though it took a certain amount of ingenuity and determination
to make it work.

My point is that opinions with regard to how easy working on these
brakes may or may not be don't add up to a hill of beans.  With the
57/58/59 Imperial, you are dealing with a designed in Achilles heel and
you just have to do the best you can with what you have.  Good luck
finding a shop that will try to do it.  Even more good luck in finding
one that can actually do the job.  I would find it impossible to
criticize anyone who puts on a newer type of booster and a better master
cylinder.  I have not replaced my original style of booster out of a
sheer pig headed desire to keep my car as original as possible.

There is an odd element that I cannot help but remark on here.  If you
try my truck inner tube over the broken booster temporary repair,
nothing has to be removed so you get working brakes for basically
nothing, except the effort of installing the tube over the bellows unit.
Under Bill's circumstances it is definitely the route I would take until
a shop that will and can do the job is found.  The shop will need the
right equipment, and that is not going to be easy to find.  If Karpps
has gone to the trouble of recreating the rubber for the bellows unit
and also does the installation, they would be the best people to tackle
the job.  A phone call to them will answer that question.  Being as far
away from them as Texas, taking my car to them was not an option.

Hugh