Very interesting post, but I would have to point out that there is a flaw. The
part about not pushing the piston "up into the rusty cylinder" will only work
if only one piston is in a rusty cylinder. In a V-8 engine (as well as any
other type with more than one cylinder) while one piston is moving in a
downward motion, others will be moving in an upward motion. This will ruin the
rings of the upward moving pistons causing the need for a rebuild.
I am as much in favor of making something work with as little effort as
possible as the next guy. There is a point of diminishing returns, though. From
the sound of the condition of the '58 Imperial engine, it is likely that there
is no hope short of a rebuild. A Model T Ford is a toy compared to the
precision and engineering involved in a 392 Chrysler Hemispherical Combustion
V-8.
Paul
In a message dated 5/3/2004 11:55:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
imperialist1960@xxxxxxxxx writes:
> Your dream of turning the engine over but having it stuck is probably coming
>from something that often gets overlooked by people, open valves during
>storage.
>
> I just got a Model T that had been under a car-port here in California.
>Someone had removed the #2 sparkplug long ago, and had removed the hood and
>everything, leaving it exposed to the air. No direct water ever got on it,
>but that's not good at all because there's water in the air and it condenses n
>anything it can when temperatures change.
>
> This particular engine that was in the car was stuck.
>
> I removed the head.
>
> This is important:
>
> Cylinder #2, which had been open was just fine. #3 was rusted with bright
>orange rust. There was a large dead insect on top of the piston. It had its
>spark plug still in and had been in a closed engine the whole time since being
>parked in 1972. The water galleries and head gasket were fine with no
>leakage. How did this come about?
>
> I have the engine freed up now and did not have to rebuild it, so please read
>on, and this applies to most any car engine.
>
> Here's the deal: When you park a car, there is unconditionally one or more
>valves open no matter where the crank stops. The car in my case had been
>parked in 1972 and not touched since. With an exhaust valve open slightly
>where it landed, it was exposed to the outside air via the exhast manifold and
>exhaust pipe.
>
> There were large thin flakes from the wall of the cylinder raised off of the
>walls and it was very ugly.
>
> If you store a car, it is best to turn it over, even without starting it,
>once a month so that the valves are operated and the cylinder exposed to air
>gets changed.
>
> Remedy: Got a car that's been sitting for a decade or more? ALWAYS remove
>the heads and inspect. No Matter What! You will save yourself a rebuild
>nearly every time.
>
> Once the heads are off, use a screwdriver to scrape at whatever rust is in
>there. Don't gouge the cylinder walls, but just go for the scale and loose
>stuff. Vacuum out. Now go back in with a rag wrapped around the screwdriver
>and try to be a little more aggressive.
>
> After that's as clean as its going to get, drop marvel mystery oil in and
>walk away for 24 hours, repeating at least once. Put in enough to create a
>standing pool that will hopefully penetrate and soak in. It works even better
>if the top of the piston is parallel to the ground, but that's tough in a V8
>without removing the engine.
>
> If the rust is particularly bad, and you think that pouring liquid in will
>create a standing pool, you can use household vinegar which will dissolve the
>rust in 48 hours. You'll have to drop the oil pan to get the vinegar out, but
>you want to skip removing the block from the car, right? Suck out vinegar
>after 48 hours of refilling it so that it is immersed and soaking and replace
>vinegar with Marvel oil as described above.
>
> You now have a rusted cylinder that hopefully has oily rust or dissolved oily
>rust, you now need to try to move the crank. Guess which way you want to
>turn? The piston must move down its bore, irrespective of the normal rotation
>of the engine - reversing the spin is OK. NEVER push the piston up the
>cylinder. You will not be able to tell which direction of rotation is up with
>the head on, so those have to come off for this reason alone, but you have to
>do the cleanout first, so it's all related.
>
> There will be all sorts of junk on the cylinder wall. If you try to start
>the car, and the piston gets jammed upwards though a hole that's too small due
>to rust, you'll scrape all the rust off the wall with the rings. The rings
>will be destroyed, and you'll have a smokescreen of oil pouring out the pipe
>brcause the rings are no longer sealing or have shattered into fragments or
>whatever.
>
> Dragging the piston down will hopefully mean that the rings are traversing
>cleaner walls that were not exposed to air and water (sealed off by rings) and
>won't be damaged.
>
> Take the piston to bottom and leave it there. Take a rag and clean out the
>cylinder, getting what's left dry for inspection. Let's assume that there are
>no giant pits or holes or whatever that would be a deal-breaker. Use moderate
>grit sandpaper or emerycloth and sand the walls of the cylinder so that they
>are approximately smooth with no major irregularities. Get a cylinder hone,
>the sort with 3 long thin vertical stones and a flex driveshaft (not the
>bristle-brush type) and use a medium or fine stone. I like fine with lots
>more grinding time personally.
>
> Make certain that as you spin the hone, that you move it up and down
>vigorously so that the scores that you're honing into the cylinder wall are
>not horizontal and in the same plane as the top of the block or parallel to
>the piston rings.
>
> On mine, it took maybe 5 minutes of alternating between honing and using
>compressed air to blow dust out before I wound up with a semi-smooth surface.
>I don't know how fast a power drill spins, but if it spins at 1000 RPM, then
>that was maybe 3000 revolutions of honing. You'll never do that by hand, so
>get a hone to do this job. Vacuum out and clean cylinder with a rag.
>
> Once done, I drop more marvel oil in, making sure to get all the way around
>the piston, especially at the top. Wipe it all over the cylinder wall.
>
> Crank the engine now by hand. You've already lubed the other pistons, right?
> Pull the cylinder(s) that you've been working on to top-dead-center. You'll
>now have a rusty piston right up on top where you can get to it. Cover all
>exposed parts that like to be kept clean. Wire wheel that guy and clean it
>off. Shop vac off the top. repeat for other piston tops. Wipe clean and
>drizzle more lubricant into the crack where the rings are. I use a giant
>syringe for that, but you can use a turkey baster or whatever.
>
> Crank the engine over by hand and loosen it through motion. Keep the
>cylinder walls wet with oil. When you get it moving freely, you're almost
>home. Drop the pan if you feel it needed. Clean and reinstall. Put in fresh
>oil. I like thicker stuff like 20/50. Reinstall the heads without the
>valvetrain and the plugs off. Torque to spec. Now that this is all done, you
>can crank the engine with the starter and spin it faster and see what happens.
> You should have a free-moving engine that is ready to be reassembled and run.
>
>
> You have had a chance to have the heads off and have wire-wheeled them (I
>hope), so the combustion chambers and everything else is clean, right?
>Rewire/reinstall the plugs and start her up. Chances are that the thing will
>run. There may be some blow-by on that cylinder if the rings are not sealing
>properly, but it may improve with several miles of use, so don't be too
>concerned about a little oil vapor coming out the rear of the car. Some of
>that will be the oil that's in the rings and all.
>
> You may get the heads off and realize the engine' is dead frozen and rusted
>solid, but I would bet against it. I would also bet against the engine being
>siezed on the bottom end, unless your car had an oil pump problem (unlikely),
>or was started without any water in the cooling system, which sould cause lots
>of bad things, including pistons and block getting swollen together from heat.
>
> Hope that helps. It's a bunch of seemingly extra work as opposed to just
>starting the car up and driving it as one would wish, but this could make a
>huge difference in how your engine works over the long run, and could allow
>you to skip a rebuild for awhile.
>
>
>
> Kenyon Wills
> San Lorenzo/SF Bay Area
>
> 1960 Chrysler Imperial
>LeBaron>http://imperialclub.com/Yr/1960/Kenyon/Page01.htm
>
> 1964 Chrysler Crown Imperial>http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1964/Kenyon64/
>
> 1973 Chrysler Imperial
> LeBaron>http://imperialclub.com/Yr/1973/Wills/index.htm
>
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