Re: [FWDLK] "how many are left , "

[MARK J HASH <mjh@xxxxxxxxxx>]

As someone who works for the DMV (in Oregon), I have to challenge any
organization who claims to be able to give an exact (or even approximate)
number of how many of a particular vehicle are "left" of our Forward Look
vehicles.  VIN numbers on cars did not necessarily mean anything until 1981,
when federal law mandated a 17 digit VIN, with certain VIN digits meaning
certain things, including a model line.

Prior to 1981, auto manufacturers, and in fact manufacturers of anything
with wheels that operated on our highways, could devise their own VIN system
to mean anything that manufacturer wanted it to mean.  Take for example, my
1957 Plymouth Fury.  I know that 7438 of these cars were produced.  I also
know that somewhere in the neighborhood of 17 cars have been positively
identified by The Golden Fin Society.  In Oregon, at least, DMV does not
track vehicles by model, prior to 1981 models, AT ALL, because of the many
variant VIN systems used by manufacturers.  How many other states are also
this way?  I know that some states don't even issue titles for vehicles that
are over a certain age!!

So if I asked one of these groups that claims to be able to access DMV
records to determine even how many of these are currently registered,  how
would they be able to differentiate between my Fury, which has VIN
#16232421, and my '57 Belvedere 4 door sedan parts car, which has VIN #
16124579?

The answer is, they cannot, because in '57, Plymouth VINs were nothing more
than sequential production numbers, each individual digit had no other
meaning.  The same is true across the board for Chrysler Corp until well
into the 1960s (with the exception of adding an engine identifier in 1958).
Ford and GM were a little quicker evolving in putting a model identifier, as
well as an engine identifier into their VIN numbers.  But even then, it
wasn't until the late 1960s that most American cars could trace their
specific models and package features by the VIN number.

Any "estimates" of how many are left, are pure conjecture, based on
individual interpretations.  Simply, they are, at best, educated guesses.

Mark   mjh
'57 Fury in OR

----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Howard <rhoward@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] "how many are left , "


> Dear Philippe,
> I tried this company some years ago. They were prompt in their reply.
> They get their numbers based on current registrations, as far as I know.
> (How else could they come up with a count?)
> This means they miss all the UNregistered cars sitting in barns, garages
and
> fields, whether they are parts cars or restorables.
>    Which makes me wonder, how DOES the system work in the U.S.? When a car
> goes to a wrecking yard with title, and subsequently gets crushed, isnt
the
> yard owner required to send the title into the state DMV, reporting it as
> such?
> In any event, Philippe, I agree with you that there must be more Imperials
> out there than reported by your company.
> RogerH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Philippe COURANT" <accf_clb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 1:03 PM
> Subject: [FWDLK] "how many are left , "
>
>
> > Hi all,
> > I've a friend who has a book named "how many are left" (1984
> > edition) and the numbers of "survivors" are very strange:
> > About my car (1957 Imp. cv.) they said 69 cars ( prod: 1167) .
> > About 1961 Lebaron, 88 cars (prod: 1026).
> > About 1962 Cad....Eld.. 907 cars (prod: 1450 ex. )  !!
> > i thinks that these numbers are very exaggerated and i don't know
> > how they can assert a particular number of survivors.
> > I've seen that a society of La Mesa (Ca) has the same name "how
> > many are left". Is this society valuable with their "computer
> > tracked registrations" as they ad.. They charge $ 19.00 to both
> > national ans state registration (for one year car ? for a make
> > ?). Does someone has used this society ?
> >
> > --
> > Philippe COURANT (Pau, France)
> > Imperial 57 Crown convertible
> > Buick 58 Roadmaster sedan
> >
> > - American Car Club de France (ACCF) : http://www.accf.com
> >
> > - Chrysler Imperial France : http://www.ifrance.com/c-i-f
> >
> > - Cadillac " Standard of Excellence " :
> > http://www.ifrance.com/accf-cad
> >
> > - SportsCars : http://www.ifrance.com/accf-sprtcar
> >
>