It's really funny that Dave Homstad would mention experiencing
almost-catastrophic oversteer, on his first radial tire 'trip'.
The SAME thing happened to me.
My car's last bias-ply trip was to L.A. area, where it was discovered
that one of the front(?) tires had had an out-of-round 'situation',
which produced a wear -area, of about 6 -8", but that wear-area, upon
arriving in L.A., was discovered to have worn INTO the tire cord!!
Whoops. Went to a Goodyear Store ( quickly) & got some P205
Arrivas--GREAT tires, but too small; got them, mostly, due to their 2"
white walls).
[Now, back to our story] : on that first post-purchas trip, I'm on an
L.A. freeway, approaching a left-hand bend, & VOILA! MASSIVE
oversteer!!!, on a perfectly dry concrete roadway.
I never thought, til tonite, that I might have induced that oversteer,
based upon steering inputs, with the bias plys.
I decreased the rear tire pressure, to give it more 'bite', but I, too,
had a real surprise, on my first radial-tire trip!
Neil Vedder
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--- Begin Message ---
- From: David Homstad <dhomstad@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:51:16 -0600
Roger,
I talked to a Diamondback rep at Hershey a couple of years ago. He told me
that they would apply their wide white walls to any new tire you chose, in
any www width you chose. Including Michelins. They would pick up the tries
wholesale, apply the www, and sell them to you at the ordinary retail price.
You can have any quality tire you want.
Here's the deal: all tires are not created equal, whether they are bias or
radials!
On my daily driver (a retired CV police car), I replaced the tires that came
on it (cheap replacement tires), when they wore out, with a set of quality
Michelins of the exact same size and same inflation pressure. The difference
in handling was so great that I almost lost control due to oversteer on the
first few sharp corners I went around. The new tires had very stiff
sidewalls compared to the old mushy sidewalls of the tires I replaced. The
old tires were so soft that they would twist on the rim in a corner,
requiring more turn of the steering wheel compared to the new Michelins. Now
the car handles much better and rides smoother. The initial "oversteer" was
me, not the car, because I had to re-learn its handling characteristics all
over again. The bottom line is that much of the difference of personal bias
(pun intended) on this radial vs. bias tire issue is due to the quality of
tires chosen. Most of the WWW radials out there that we use on our old cars
are built for their looks and ability to hold air, not for their handling
qualities or tire life. If you want good handling, buy GOOD tires.
I bought a set of wire wheels for my 56 Dodge a few years back. They came
with a mounted set of Firestone 721 radials that had very little wear, so I
put them on my car. I felt handling was slightly improved in a straight line
and on corners, but it also felt a little mushy too. The main problem was
that these Firestones were square. They were so out-of-round that they
almost shook my dental fillings out at highway speeds. I tried to get the
dealer to warranty replace them (just after the big problem with Firestones
on Ford SUVs), but they stubbornly refused. This is my second experience
with Firestones, both bad. I went back to my previous bias-belted tires and
I am satisfied. These are G78 -15 WWW Remingtons. They are belted and
slightly lower and wider than the 1956 original (tall and skinny 83 profile
7.75 - 15) tires, and I think this gives better handling than the originals.
They will follow a pavement grove slightly, but they don't "jump around or
sideways" as some folks have reported. Again, repo tires, either radial or
bias, built for show looks and not quality may result in poor handling
characteristics when compared to a modern bias tire, or even compared to the
original tires back when the car was new.
If you replace a poor tire, either radial or bias, with a better quality
tire, either radial or bias, and notice an improvement, you have learned
nothing other than the new tire is better, either radial or bias. But the
quality factor is usually overlooked and most people see the radial vs. bias
as the deciding factor. The only true test is to compare quality tires of
both designs, with similar size and profile and proper inflation pressures,
and then decide which is better. But who is willing to spend big money on 2
sets of quality tires for a test?
Quality is everything when it comes to tires. I am not aware of any "repo"
style tires, radial or bias, that I would put on a daily driver that would
give good handling and tire life. Repos are made for show and parades and
that is all. Most personal reports I have heard are mediocre handling, poor
tire life, and even blow-outs after extended highway driving.
Dave Homstad
56 Dodge D500
56 Dodge convert
-----Original Message-----
From: Forward Look Mopar Discussion List
[mailto:L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Roger Schaaf
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 6:06 PM
To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] radial tires and lost hubcaps
I have been saying this tale of these tires for years, but some folks still
are not believers. However I now run Diamondback Radials, and even though I
think they are better then any other wide white out available, my first set
had a severe case of whitewalls turning brown(of course in their
advertisements they claim this will never occur). They did replace under
warranty, but by the time I paid shipping of my old tires back, mounting,
balancing etc. I was out almost another 450.00 plus several additional
hours of my time. So there 5 tires cost me 1,200.00 instead of the 750.00
that I had expected to pay so the warranty was basically a joke. Wish that
Michelin(yes, I know The French and all) made wide whites in the size that I
need. That way I could buy them at Costco, and have a real warranty. Mail
order tires are a bad deal if you ever have a problem.
Roger Schaaf
300 B
----- Original Message -----
From: "John P. Williams" <jpwilliams@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] radial tires and lost hubcaps
> Here's why I will never purchase Coker tires again:
>
> I bought a set of five Coker wide whitewall radials for my 1957 Dodge in
> September, 1997.
>
> Six thousand miles later, in May 1999, my mechanic asked me if I had
> retreads on the car -- and pointed to tread separation on all four tires.
> Coker tried to claim that incorrect tire pressure was the cause (32 PSI
> instead of 35). The fact that the never-used spare had the same tread
> separation convinced them to replace all five tires under warranty.
> Between
> dismounting, mounting and rebalancing, as well as the tread wear
> allowance,
> the 'free' replacements cost nearly $250.
>
> Nine thousand miles later, in July 2002, the left rear tire developed a
> leak, and the steel belt started shifting around inside the tire. I
> assumed
> I ran over a nail, and replaced the tire at my own expense. Fifteen
> hundred
> miles later, in September 2002, the right front tire self-destructed on
> the
> highway. The steel belt had come loose and broken right through the
> tread.
> The tire had literally rotted from the inside out.
>
> That was enough. I sure liked the appearance of white whitewalls, but I
> wasn't going to sacrifice my life for the Coker's good looks. I had the
> car
> towed to the nearest tire dealer, and bought four standard 14-inch
> Firestone
> radials, right off the rack. Those tires cost $60 each, compared to $150
> each for the Cokers. More than four years and thirty thousand miles
> later,
> those bargain-basement Firestones are still going strong. And I'm alive
> to
> tell the story.
>
> John Williams
> 1957 Dodge Custom Royal
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Forward Look Mopar Discussion List
> [mailto:L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of eastern sierra Adj
> Services
> Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 8:49 PM
> To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [FWDLK] radial tires and lost hubcaps
>
> ..the dreaded Coker tire tread separation.
>
> Their current spokesman, on the FWDLK Website acknowledges the tires'
> "history", but says that the tire production quality has been improved.
>
> It is becoming to be acknowledged "common knowledge" that a tire
> "should" be replaced after about 6 -8 years of production, regardless of
> the amount/degree of the tire's usage.
>
> So, if my DB's are only going to have 6-8 year's "Service Life"
> (instead of the 12-ish, that its predecessor's provided), I'm damn-sure
> gonna
> ENJOY wearing-them-out, during these next few years.
>
> Neil Vedder
>
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