[Chrysler300] Digest Number 761

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[Chrysler300] Digest Number 761

From: <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:31:26 -0500

Title: [Chrysler300] Digest Number 761

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------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. New 300C - Nuff Said?
           From: "Wayne Graefen" <wgraefen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
      2. Re: New 300C - Nuff Said?
           From: "John Baker" <jbaker22@xxxxxxxxxx>
      3. Re: New 300C - Nuff Said?
           From: "Kenneth R. Smitley" <Kens_Cars@xxxxxxx>
      4. 300 neon clock question, revisited.
           From: jp300hurst@xxxxxxx
      5. Re: New 300C - Another viewpoin!
           From: barjam300@xxxxxxx
      6. Fwd: 300 neon clock question, revisited.
           From: "Charles Heinitz" <ccheinitz@xxxxxxxxxxx>
      7. 57 Intake manifold
           From: john_nowosacki@xxxxxxxxxxx
      8. Re: 300 neon clock question, revisited.
           From: Ray Jones <hurst300@xxxxxxxxxxx>
      9. 6volt/12volt
           From: "Ray" <rfx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     10. Re: 300 neon clock question, revisited.
           From: "Wayne Graefen" <wgraefen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     11. Re: In Defense of The Parts Man... e-Bay 300 parts
           From: "PaddyCaddy ." <paddycaddy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     12. Re: 300s
           From: "Bob Jasinski" <rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     13. Re: new 300C - yes, please go and tell them
           From: "PaddyCaddy ." <paddycaddy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     14. Re: 300 neon clock question, revisited.
           From: jp300hurst@xxxxxxx
     15. Re: In defence of the 'Parts man'.
           From: "David Agnew" <Fnnutz@xxxxxxxxxx>
     16. Re: 300s
           From: "Charlie Valentine" <cross.ram@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     17. opinion re: Chrysler 300
           From: John Hertog <crossram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     18. Chrysler 300's
           From: John Hertog <crossram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     19. Re: Chrysler 300's
           From: "Bob Jasinski" <rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     20. Re: opinion re: Chrysler 300
           From: "Ron Waters" <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     21. apology, if due
           From: "christopher beilby" <thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx>

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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 08:17:51 -0500
From: "Wayne Graefen" <wgraefen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: New 300C - Nuff Said?

Now lets be REAL careful with comments about Germans and 300Cs. Your 300C Technical Advisor in this club traces his family origins directly to the Black Forest in S. Germany and is quite PROUD of that fact.

I can't see that any bashing of the new 300C or the company that builds it or the parent company in Europe is in any way productive to this list. Really I consider it to be OT (Off Topic). Y'all are raggin' on an entirely different automotive world reality in 2003 than what we had in 1957. Comments here are not going to change anything in the styling studios nor in the marketing think tank nor change the bottom line one penny. Some of us have bought the current production Chrysler 300M and some of us will buy the next Chrysler 300 because we actually like the styling and the Mercedes Benz engineering. I personally haven't as yet but then I'm driving my Studebaker (another German heritage family) more often than my old 300s!

The subjectivity of these comments is really better reserved for an Aussie bar room in the Outback than it is for the Chrysler 300 Club International listserver.

Nuff Said?

Wayne Graefen
Old 300C Tech

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:29:22 -0400
From: "John Baker" <jbaker22@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: New 300C - Nuff Said?

AMEN !

Well Said.
John Baker
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Graefen" <wgraefen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Intl 300" <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 9:17 AM
Subject: [Chrysler300] New 300C - Nuff Said?

Now lets be REAL careful with comments about Germans and 300Cs. Your 300C
Technical Advisor in this club traces his family origins directly to the
Black Forest in S. Germany and is quite PROUD of that fact.

I can't see that any bashing of the new 300C or the company that builds it
or the parent company in Europe is in any way productive to this list.
Really I consider it to be OT (Off Topic). Y'all are raggin' on an
entirely different automotive world reality in 2003 than what we had in
1957. Comments here are not going to change anything in the styling studios
nor in the marketing think tank nor change the bottom line one penny. Some
of us have bought the current production Chrysler 300M and some of us will
buy the next Chrysler 300 because we actually like the styling and the
Mercedes Benz engineering. I personally haven't as yet but then I'm driving
my Studebaker (another German heritage family) more often than my old 300s!

The subjectivity of these comments is really better reserved for an Aussie
bar room in the Outback than it is for the Chrysler 300 Club International
listserver.

Nuff Said?

Wayne Graefen
Old 300C Tech

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:37:25 -0400
From: "Kenneth R. Smitley" <Kens_Cars@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: New 300C - Nuff Said?

GOOD FOR YOU Mr. Graefen..............THANK YOU, Ken Smitley...

----- Original Message -----
From: John Baker
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 9:39 AM
To: Wayne Graefen; Intl 300
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] New 300C - Nuff Said?

AMEN !

Now lets be REAL careful with comments about Germans and 300Cs. Your 300C
Technical Advisor in this club traces his family origins directly to the
Black Forest in S. Germany and is quite PROUD of that fact.

I can't see that any bashing of the new 300C or the company that builds it
or the parent company in Europe is in any way productive to this list.
Really I consider it to be OT (Off Topic). Y'all are raggin' on an
entirely different automotive world reality in 2003 than what we had in
1957. Comments here are not going to change anything in the styling studios
nor in the marketing think tank nor change the bottom line one penny. Some
of us have bought the current production Chrysler 300M and some of us will
buy the next Chrysler 300 because we actually like the styling and the
Mercedes Benz engineering. I personally haven't as yet but then I'm driving
my Studebaker (another German heritage family) more often than my old 300s!

The subjectivity of these comments is really better reserved for an Aussie
bar room in the Outback than it is for the Chrysler 300 Club International
listserver.

Nuff Said?

Wayne Graefen
Old 300C Tech

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:41:49 EDT
From: jp300hurst@xxxxxxx
Subject: 300 neon clock question, revisited.

Hello all, I hope this isn't considered off topic. Someone here, quite
sometime ago posted a question about these ' 57- ' 58 Chrysler 300 neon clocks that
Wal-mart has. I finally found one and bought it. Someone had mentioned in
this forum that they took the clock apart and changed the picture inside. I
would like to do the same, as the year is wrong ("1956") plus the overall
design, except for the car, is just too generic for me. How did you go about
changing the inside picture?

Thanks in advance, John

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:03:09 EDT
From: barjam300@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: New 300C - Another viewpoin!

To those of us that are died in the wool Chrysler fans, look at what the 300
Heritage has done for us in the transportation buying sector of our economy.
The New Chrysler Company (DC) has given us the opportunity to buy and drive a
modern 300 letter series car. Today you can go buy a light duty truck with
HEMI power as in "Has it got a HEMI." Tomorrow you will be able to buy a sedan
with HEMI power. After that, DC Management has said the "HemiC Convertible" will
live when a facility is in place to assemble it.

I am in a position working for a German Tier 1 parts supplier to see that the
American auto workers job is being seriously threatened by the "Global Supply
Chain." When DC builds a HEMI sedan, I will be in line to put my backside
behind the wheel for a serious Look See.
Jim Bartuska
Founding Memeber

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:49:18 -0700
From: "Charles Heinitz" <ccheinitz@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Fwd: 300 neon clock question, revisited.

Good question. I bought one too, and was thinking of just changing the year
to 57. Hope someone has the awnser. Chuck

On another subject seems to me there was a 300 by Nissan at one time.

>From: jp300hurst@xxxxxxx
>To: wgraefen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [Chrysler300] 300 neon clock question, revisited.
>Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:41:49 EDT
>
>Hello all, I hope this isn't considered off topic. Someone here, quite
>sometime ago posted a question about these ' 57- ' 58 Chrysler 300 neon
>clocks that
>Wal-mart has. I finally found one and bought it. Someone had mentioned in
>this forum that they took the clock apart and changed the picture inside.
>I
>would like to do the same, as the year is wrong ("1956") plus the overall
>design, except for the car, is just too generic for me. How did you go
>about
>changing the inside picture?
>
>Thanks in advance, John
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:24:50 -0600
From: john_nowosacki@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: 57 Intake manifold

Hi folks,
I'm sure someone out there can help me with this.
I'm looking at a possible purchase of a dual quad intake manifold, P/N 1733477.
It looks like it is for my 57 392 Hemi. Can someone verify this number so I'll know whether or not to buy it? Were 57 and 58 the same?

Tnanks,
John

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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:29:05 -0500
From: Ray Jones <hurst300@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: 300 neon clock question, revisited.

I haven't done it yet, but on the back there are 6 small screws around the
edge. remove these and the main body will come loose from the cover. Unscrew
the brass nut on the clock shaft and lift off the hands. Under the hands is
a bigger nut, remove this and the clock itself will come out the back.
Now you can add any picture you want after cutting it to the exact diameter
and putting a hole in the center for the clock. This whole deal shouldn't
take 15 minutes, if the new pict is ready.
Enjoy, Ray Jones

p.s.: These clock motors are available as cheap as $5.00 each in hobby
stores and catalogs. So you can make a clock out of anything such as a
hubcap or valve cover, whatever. All you need is a drill for the shaft hole
and some numbers.

> From: "Charles Heinitz" <ccheinitz@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:49:18 -0700
> To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Fwd: [Chrysler300] 300 neon clock question, revisited.
>
> Good question. I bought one too, and was thinking of just changing the year
> to 57. Hope someone has the awnser. Chuck
>
> On another subject seems to me there was a 300 by Nissan at one time.
>
>
>
>> From: jp300hurst@xxxxxxx
>> To: wgraefen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [Chrysler300] 300 neon clock question, revisited.
>> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:41:49 EDT
>>
>> Hello all, I hope this isn't considered off topic. Someone here, quite
>> sometime ago posted a question about these ' 57- ' 58 Chrysler 300 neon
>> clocks that
>> Wal-mart has. I finally found one and bought it. Someone had mentioned in
>> this forum that they took the clock apart and changed the picture inside.
>> I
>> would like to do the same, as the year is wrong ("1956") plus the overall
>> design, except for the car, is just too generic for me. How did you go
>> about
>> changing the inside picture?
>>
>> Thanks in advance, John
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
>
> To send a message to this group, send an email to:
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>
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>
>
>

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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:42:58 -0700
From: "Ray" <rfx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: 6volt/12volt

Hi members
I know there has been talk about rebuilding starters for better starting power but has anyone changed from 6 volt system to 12 volts for the same reason? If so I would like to hear how it was done, parts needed, instructions, etc. Many thanks for your help.

Ray Farquhar
San Jose Ca.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:31:20 -0500
From: "Wayne Graefen" <wgraefen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: 300 neon clock question, revisited.

I've seen the clock. It pictures a 300D, states "1956" and the background data is talking about unit-bodied cars (which at Chrysler means 1960 and later). So if you are after the fuzzy picture of the D, you might as well cut out the car and change everything ELSE.

Wayne

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:49:19 -0400
From: "PaddyCaddy ." <paddycaddy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: In Defense of The Parts Man... e-Bay 300 parts

The solution to these ebay ripoff artists and salvage yard thieves is very
simple.

You guys simply need to start your own salvage yard on your front lawn !
Then you can all know the joys of fighting off the EPA, county ordinance
inspectors, irate nieghbors (soon to include your wife), and - yes - buyers
who think that every part should be sold for $1.00 more than it sold for in
1957. Wouldn't want to be "greedy" now - would we...?

Forgive the directness of my response. But I once owned a shop and stripped
cars and sold parts. I am one of the few who have been on both sides of the
antique car parts business. It was a fairly miserable existence being on
the supply side for a few years. Hundreds of hours of hazardous and back
breaking work vanish with very little to show for it once the bills are
paid. Ever seen a salvage yard owner who drives a new Lexus and vacations
in the Virgin Islands ? Any look to you like they'll be dropping $200 on a
gourmet dinner anytime soon ?

I trust you get my point.   Now that ebay has provided some of these guys
with a way to move beyond eeking out an existence for a living, why would
they not try and maximise profits ???   What do you guys do in your
professions ?   Charge as little as possible and sell many items at once ?
Minimise profits at all costs ?   Of course not.

So why does the old car hobby have so many people who think that the salvage
business should be the only in America to operate on a Stalinist program of
giving very rare parts away at minimum cost ?   Because we are to be so
admired for keeping such cars alive and preserved - and therefore have
earned a special exemption from the free market ?   Yeah... Keep thinking
that really hard until it comes true.
Really now - I think we ought to all thank our lucky stars that there are
still people around who have such parts - and that they have become soooooo
much easier to get since the advent of ebay.    I for one spend far fewer
weekends busting knuckles and fighting off mosquitoes and snakes now that I
have a computer.

Lets not forget - many states have passed corrupt crusher laws that enable
salvage yard owners to sell off all their older cars to chemical companies,
who then crush them and are given pollution credits once they do ! I have
personally witnessed hundreds of 1950's and 1960's vehicles disappear from a
few yards in the northeast and hauled off to the crusher. It is a gut
wrenching thing to watch knowing that there isn't anything I could or can do
to stop it. But I suspect now that more of what is left is surviving now
that ebay is around.

That there are still some old timers who have resisted this temptation and
kept a very dwidling supply of very rare parts available to us should earn
them a big thank you. Yeah - most are really tough to deal with - even on
ebay. That's what years of hard work and little or no payoff or
appreciation will do for just about anyone.

Maybe if you started your next transaction with one of them with a little
complement and appreciation for all his hard work, some of those grungy,
tempermental salvage yard "wierdos" might just brighten up a bit and make
you purchases for your Brute a little less infuriating.

It works for me....

This has been a public service announcement from the Mid-Atlantic States
Office of "Save our Salvage Yard Workers." A non-profit organization
serving the junkyard community with free public showers, grooming advice,
bunion removal, amputaions, and catastrophic dental work. Look for our
free personals section in our website coming soon !

Sean.

>From: "Warren R Anderson" To: ,"David Agnew" Subject: Re: [Chrysler300]
>e-Bay 300 parts Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:57:48 -0700
>
>
>
>
>Recently, I've noticed an insidious little trend creeping in to sales of
>some 300 used parts on e-Bay. You make more! Apparently. I don't think it's
>a good thing, greed seems to be taking over, more and more.
>
>
>I ran into the take apart practice with auction items being lot packaged by
>the handling auction company at an auction in 1973. I had to bid on lot
>quantities of strange things just to get whole tools that I wanted. The
>practice is used to maximize sales etc and the practice was totally
>acknowledged by the auction company when I asked a company rep.
>
>Warren Anderson Sedona,AZ
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Message: 12
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:51:19 -0700
From: "Bob Jasinski" <rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: 300s

Charlie,

You mentioned:

Actually, those letters do mean somthing. 300C for instance stands for 3.0 liter displacement, coupe body, 300D = diesel engine, E usually means fuel injected (on the older cars, now it is a class). S means high end luxury class, L=long body. For example, a 450SEL is a 4.5 liter, luxury class, fuel injected, long body sedan.

I have always loved cars that were well engineered and set apart from the crowd. Chrysler and Mercedes cars have always been well engineered automobiles. While I am not crazy about of how the merger transpired, I can't think of a car company I would rather have had Chrysler merge with.

Chrysler 300 content. Took the 300G out for a ride last weekend. Car runs fantastic, loved the feeling of that ram induction working its engineering magic on the freeway onramp.

Bob J

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:07:12 -0400
From: "PaddyCaddy ." <paddycaddy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: new 300C - yes, please go and tell them

Perhaps this is a good time to remind ourselves that Chrysler Corporation
itself would have vanished 30 "the politicians" had not bailed them out with
one of the largest socialist hand out programs in US history. That's right.
Socialism.

In the mean time, Mercedes has marketed hundreds of models - including
trucks and busses - all over the world rather succesfully, while Chrysler
and the rest of the US auto makers didn't make one dime selling cars. They
only made money selling trucks and SUV's.

Now that the Germans and Japanese are building trucks and SUV's - I'm afraid
that more overseas big fish will be swallowing the struggling American small
fish one by one.

There is a lot of speculation that Mercedes will simply discontinue the
Chrysler line in the coming years, shedding the dead wieght of a company
that can't turn a profit. That's right, Capitalism.

I'm not any happier about it than you are - but reality is still reality.
The market makes these things happen. Not any international conspiracy.
Maybe the American companies should simply spend some more time figuring out
how to be more competitive ?

I think the new 300C looks good, at least from the pictures. But they made
a mistake with the name, agreed.

Sean.

>From: fastedgie@xxxxxxx
>To: rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx
>CC: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] new 300C - yes, please go and tell them
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:22:43 EDT
>
>In a message dated 9/26/03 9:37:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:
>
>
> > It will be interesting to see how the public reacts to the car. I'm
> > anxious to see one in person to really develop an overall opinion. I
>remember when
> > the Dodge Ram trucks came out in '93. Many die-hard MoPar fans did not
>like
> > the styling and called it ugly. over time it became so popular that
>Ford
> > and Chevy have had to work hard to keep up, taking styling cues from the
>Ram.
> >
>
>I personally can't imagine any Mopar lover who didn't immediately fall in
>love with the 1994 Ram. Whether the new 300 sells will depend on the
>acceptance
>of styling and pricing.
>Consumers have a lot of choices and the old die-hard Chrysler lovers are
>dying off as a result of the German marketing ideas.
>We will have to wait and see. One thing for sure, If it was still the old
>Chrysler Corporation we wouldn't have reason to be concerned. We would
>have
>already had the 300Hemi C Convertible which was undoubtedly one of the best
>designs for public appeal and acceptance. However, Mercedes management
>mentality
>does not give the public what they want, they give them what they dictate.
>Because it's a free world they are losing their asses in the American
>market.
>Don't believe me, look at their dictator brands, like the Pacifica, the
>Sprinter, and the G-500. No one in North America wants them but they
>continue to
>force them on the dealers. Poor dealers can't complain for fear of
>silent
>reprocutions. It's a mess!
>Plymouth was the American brand. It's gone and Chrysler nameplate was
>degraded to fill the gap and now all of a sudden Chrysler is being upscaled
>because
>that didn't work. Up scale means higher prices. Maybe they think that
>getting
>a Chrysler price in to the Mercedes range will increase Mercedes sales.
>Whatever they think they are just plain NUTS!
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Message: 14
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:38:25 EDT
From: jp300hurst@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: 300 neon clock question, revisited.

Thanks for all of your quick responses. Sounds like a much easier little
project than I thought! I'm considering getting a somewhat blown up picture of
my Hurst, and putting that in.

Thanks again, John

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:35:41 +1200
From: "David Agnew" <Fnnutz@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: In defence of the 'Parts man'.

From: "PaddyCaddy ." <paddycaddy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"The solution to these ebay ripoff artists and salvage yard thieves is very simple."

Hi Sean,
The above words, 'ripoff artists' and 'salvage yard thieves' in your reply were not in my original e-mail.
I'm sorry if I offended you.
But....salvage yard owners who have saved stuff from the crusher years ago, are to be lauded.
I managed to get 4 correct 14" x 61/2" rims for my 300F from one of our members, who has such a yard , some years back.

Equally, if you have a garage full of nos parts that are 40'ish+ years old, you shouldn't have to 'give 'em away'. Not at all.

America and our so called 1st world is based on the capitalist system. I am not against making a buck.
I have to, or I couldn't hope to own a 300.
They are money pits! As you no doubt know, by now.
But still, mostly, if say, you need a wheelcover, you'd probably also need the centre as well.
Splitting them is ...well.......different.
Same for a centre console.
Selling a centre console for an F or G in 6 or 7 parts. Including even the hinge for a mere $20 start price and the ashtray lid at $40 is, in my opinion, pushing the envelope for the max!

I know some parts of the particular item, the console... were described as 're-plated'......but splitting it to it's many parts...??. It's a wonder the chrome lid screws weren't there!

I still say that it's a bit 'rich'.
But, we are all entitled to our opinion.
We won't get hauled off to the Gulag.
It is a new trend, though, and it IS creeping in to e-Bay.
I have been watching that site from 'Beanie Baby' days in '96 or so, to today, been on it since late '99.
e-Bay has made the parts quest 1000% easier. No question.
And, as time flys by, more expensive too.
Progress rolls on.
heads up........300's are great....but expensive.....
Dave.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message: 16
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:49:42 -0700
From: "Charlie Valentine" <cross.ram@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: 300s

I really did not mean "mean nothing to them" in that way. Their meaning is
not in tune with our (300 Club members) meaning and I am not saying that it
should be. They certainly do have some fine performance automobiles. Last
year at Chryslers at Carlisle I was talking to an owner of a 90 something
Mercedes which had 750 horsepower. He said that it had traction control and
you can not spin the tires. How is that for performance and the car was
stock and rather attractive. He was parked among the AMC's and Ramblers. I
think the class was "Chrysler family" or something like that.
I did a search in Google using "Mercedes 300" and just found some
information. Try http://www.3-0-0.com and if you go to "Evaluation" you will
see the page that I was looking at with the 300, 300b, 300c and 300d. I do
not know much about Mercedes cars, past or present, but I just wanted to
show our members that Mercedes have their own 300 series and that it
probably does not matter to them if we like them bringing back a Chrysler
300C.

We had 5 300's at the Franklin Mint car show today. All day all I kept
hearing was "Where's Pete" and "Did anyone see Pete". We really did miss you
Pete. On another note, two TRAILER QUEENS from N.J. drove their cars from
their home to the show "IN THE RAIN". After the rain stopped it turned out
to be a great day. Anyone looking to buy a Franklin Mint 56 Chebby Nomad?

Happy 300ing to all,
Charlie Valentine

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Jasinski" <rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 300s

Charlie,

You mentioned:

Actually, those letters do mean somthing. 300C for instance stands for 3.0
liter displacement, coupe body, 300D = diesel engine, E usually means fuel
injected (on the older cars, now it is a class). S means high end luxury
class, L=long body. For example, a 450SEL is a 4.5 liter, luxury class,
fuel injected, long body sedan.

I have always loved cars that were well engineered and set apart from the
crowd. Chrysler and Mercedes cars have always been well engineered
automobiles. While I am not crazy about of how the merger transpired, I
can't think of a car company I would rather have had Chrysler merge with.

Chrysler 300 content. Took the 300G out for a ride last weekend. Car runs
fantastic, loved the feeling of that ram induction working its engineering
magic on the freeway onramp.

Bob J

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message: 17
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:35:17 -0400
From: John Hertog <crossram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: opinion re: Chrysler 300

Listmembers !

The following paragraph was published in "Dan's Papers" September 26,2003 -
a Long Island to New York City publication with large circulation ; "Classic
Cars" section written by Bob Gelber - the whole thing can be read at :
http://www.danspapers.com/paper/cars.html

"The original Chrysler 300, probably one of the most beautiful automobiles
of 1955, got uglier every year as Chrysler introduced a wider, lower and
longer model. Car collectors aren't stupid so the '55 Chrysler 300 is the
only one of that series with big value."

I am sure list members owners of 1956 and up Chrysler 300's will want to
avail themselves of the opportunity to respond to Mr. Gelber in whatever way
they see fit. .. "Bob Gelber, an automotive journalist living in the
Hamptons, appears regularly on television as an automotive expert. You can
email him at bobgelber@xxxxxxx "

As far as his statement that the '55 C-300 is the only one of the series
with real value... hogwash !

John Hertog
Sag Harbor NY

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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 18
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:12:50 -0400
From: John Hertog <crossram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Chrysler 300's

Mr. Gelber,

I have frequently enjoyed reading your column in Dan's Papers, as I am an
automotive aficionado residing in the Hamptons. While I realize that
difficulty may exist in coming up with fresh material for each issue, I
stronly believe that any serious writer should check his or her facts before
presenting their material to the public.

I take particular issue with your statement, in the September 26, 2003 issue
of Dan's Papers - as follows: " The original Chrysler 300, probably one of
the most beautiful automobiles of 1955, got uglier every year as Chrysler
introduced a wider, lower and longer model. Car collectors aren't stupid so
the '55 Chrysler 300 is the only one of that series with big value."

I somewhat take offense at the portion of your statement, wherein you state
that the 300's got uglier every year onwards - but, I respect your right to
your opinion, as biased as it may be against the later Chrysler 300's.
Fortunately your taste is not that of the general public. While the 1955
C-300 is widely recognized as being America's first true Muscle car, it is
not noted as being the prettiest of all the 300 Letter cars. One can make a
case for the 300B - which is even simpler and "cleaner" than the C-300.
Others can argue for the 300C - Virgil Exner's masterpiece, also devoid of
the excess of chrome so common to other cars of that era. And on and on...

What does bother me, though, is that you did not bother checking your facts,
sir. The 1955 Chrysler C-300 is not by a long shot the only car of the
series with big value. Indeed, it is worth substantially LESS than its
finned hardtop counterparts. I won't even try to compare the value of a C300
to that of a 300For 300G convertible - the '60 ragtop is worth much more
than twice as much as the C300, in equivalent condition.

Expressing your taste is your right, even though I do believe you are going
way out on a limb by suggesting that a 1957 Chrysler 300C is UGLIER than a
C-300, and then ascribing this opinion to others; this is what you managed
to convey in your statement. Whereas you are certainly entitled to your
perception that the C-300 is the most beautiful of all 300's made, I can
flat-out state that this view in NOT held by the majority of 300
aficionados. Perhaps it is held by the majority of 1955 C-300 owners?
But - getting your facts straight is your obligation, as an automotive
writer. The '55 Chrysler 300 is NOT the only one of that series with big
value - nor is it the most valuable of the lot.

John J. Hertog
Sag Harbor NY
a member of the Chrysler 300 Club International, Inc.

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Message: 19
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:33:59 -0700
From: "Bob Jasinski" <rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Chrysler 300's

John, kudos to you!!! Well said!!
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hertog
To: bobgelber@xxxxxxx
Cc: Chrysler 300 Club Listverver
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 9:12 PM
Subject: [Chrysler300] Chrysler 300's

Mr. Gelber,

John J. Hertog
Sag Harbor NY
a member of the Chrysler 300 Club International, Inc.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Message: 20
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:56:20 -0400
From: "Ron Waters" <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: opinion re: Chrysler 300

...yet another self-appointed 'expert'.

'Dan's Papers' ??? Is that one of those freebee things loaded with ads from
local car dealerships ?!? LOL !

Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hertog" <crossram@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Chrysler 300 Club Listverver" <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 11:35 PM
Subject: [Chrysler300] opinion re: Chrysler 300

Listmembers !

As far as his statement that the '55 C-300 is the only one of the series
with real value... hogwash !

John Hertog
Sag Harbor NY

To send a message to this group, send an email to:
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

For list server instructions, go to
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Message: 21
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:56:43 +1000
From: "christopher beilby" <thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: apology, if due

If I have crosssed the line, or offended people by expressing my views on
Chrysler's planned new 300C, I aplogise.

Whilst expressing my view, I do not expect/ask that everyone agrees, but
clearly it seems a case of Mercedes/Chrysler attempting to 'pass off', to
use a legalistic term, the association/similarity, to the former original
300C. All over the world, 'protectors of copyrights', strongly oppose such
uses.

Earlier on I mentioned the Club should express some formal position to
Mercedes re this, but unfortunately I do not believe this ever happened, not
that it may have changed the outcome.

Whilst I appreciate the 300 Club has many aims, if they felt it is not right
to indicate there is certain displeasure at using the exact same name as was
only formerely used on one particular model, and is accepted as that, then
that is unfortunate, especially as the new 300C seemingly fails on being a
four door, and so opposed to the visual impact, standout milestone styling,
of Exner's 300C. But thank you for the too much space I took up here, and I
am still free in my own right make my (personal) views known to the two
regarded US magazines Car and Driver and Road & Track, and the suggestion
they try and source a good 300C to drive and photograph.

Many people overeseas look to America as an example of how people 'can make
good', and feel/be free to express their mind (albeit in a rational manner).
Australia has 'lost' many former icons, such as our (flying kangaroo) Qantas
falling into British control/hands. Hopefully America will save/retain
those of hers that are worth speaking up for?

In future I hopefully leave space on this site for technical matters, and
leave it to the future to judge who was right re the worthyness of the new
300C, which hopefully if fully deserves. Us aussies often say our mind, but
then maybe that is possibly because we had to deal with the poms - but get
to know us, and some of us aren't all bad.

Aussie Christopher

_________________________________________________________________
Chat via SMS. Simply send 'CHAT' to 1889918. More info at
http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/MoChat.asp?blipid=6800

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