[Chrysler300] where it all also (sometimes cannot be?) started

["christopher beilby" <thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

I may have missed it, but two other key points re hard starting, especially 
if motor already hot - say not long after turned off?

1) if the motor is at a high, or higher, operating temperature when turned 
off, (obviously?) there will be more fuel/gas vaporization - so it may be a 
great help/thought, that the radiator, water pump circulation etc is in  
best order.
And then here is another personal obsevation/thought - Australia is often 
big distances between towns - distances one can sit on speeds around (well 
over in older pre speed limit days) 60 mph. Eventually one stops for gas - 
and here is the tip to avoid hard restarting - I always try to pick only 
stopping, turning otor off, after the car has done some distance at say the 
town's lower built up speed limit - say 5 mins plus.
Those 5 or more 'near idle speed' minutes give the car/motor a chance to rid 
itself of the extra heat higher open road speeds put into the motor and 
cooling system - so in effect when you now turn the motor off, there is not 
the huge sudden heat surge/build up, from 60mph travelling to be got rid of 
by a radiator that no fan is pulling cooling air for as you pump the gas!!??

2) the point about NOT cranking the starter continuously for more than say a 
minute is very true - however forget the arnature etc, the BIGGEST reason 
your starter will crank SLOWLY/SLOWER, are the small bushes/bearings in each 
end of the starter.  THE LEAST BIT OF WEAR/PLAY can/will? see your starter 
crank at way slower speed, plus draw way more current - eventually fail, or 
I think the term before this happening is 'polarising' !? Crank your baby 
over too long, and those plain bearings in each end are not going too last 
so long either?!


So before, or just, blaming too thin leads, first also make sure your motor 
is first not running hotter than should (this before turn off tricks like 
letting motor have a chance to cool first if just driven hard), and this can 
be blocked radiator, distributor timing wrong, etc, etc  - then make sure 
your starter has near perfect end bushes. ( And I think this 'starter being 
in good order' was mentioned already.)

So finally/only - if both these right, plus you have known good, large 
capacity, battery, and your leads are thick and short with good ends/earths 
- only then are you like the Airline counter assistant in movie "trains 
Planes and Automobiles' said - "you are ****ed!!!!!!'

Chrysler I doubt would have been so dumb to make the early 6V 300s poor/slow 
crankers from new - Chrysler of all the US carmakers/majors were mainly 
engineering driven, unlike say GM who after the late 50s maybe too often let 
the bean counters carry too much weight sometimes !!??

Anyone out there remember these cars new - surely they cranked pretty good 
new, even if 6V ?

Christopher in Australia - South Australia - where (more annoying) showers 
predicted for days ahead -  300s tucked in sheds weather


>From: "Rich Barber" <c300@xxxxxxx>
>To: "'John Mc Adams'" 
><clafong@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,<artc@xxxxxxxxxxx>,<Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [Chrysler300] Here's where it all started
>Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 21:32:13 -0700
>
>Excellent point, but I believe most of the heat is generated from 
>resistance
>losses in the armature and coils, not friction of carbon on copper.  Arcing
>may be an issue there.  A temperature of 360 degrees F, plus, is required 
>to
>melt solder.  I don't know if an armature could get that hot. But what ever
>excess heat is generated is mostly hard on the insulation--and after 40
>years, hopefully the engineers had begun building starters to take a 
>licking
>and keep on ticking.
>
>Charles Kettering had the brilliant observation that starters did not have
>to run continuously so could be designed for "short" bursts of high 
>current.
>He patented the electric starter in 1915 and it changed the automotive 
>world
>as women could now easily start internal combustion engines, were no longer
>relegated to electric autos and hit the road in droves.  Progress!!!(?).
>Kettering was a partner in Dayton Engineering Laboratories Co (DELCO) and
>was also a co-inventor of Freon.
>
>Another post suggested checking the block-to-firewall grounding strap.
>Always a good idea.  The one on my car is intact, but is kind of dainty and
>certainly designed to assure a good ground connection for lights, fans,
>accessories and coil--not the starter.  Connecting a ground cable to a
>starter bolt would parallel the existing circuit between the primary ground
>cable on the front of the engine to the starter--and I think that would be
>of negligible resistance.
>
>One last thought, then let's bury this one for another six months--and that
>is ignition timing.  As the timing is advanced, the engine may be harder to
>start.
>
>C-300'ly,
>Rich Barber
>Brentwood, CA
>1955 Chrysler C-300
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>Behalf Of John Mc Adams
>Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 7:18 PM
>To: artc@xxxxxxxxxxx; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] slow starting 55 new yorker
>
>This is to all members who may have a 6 volt hard starting early Chrysler.
>
>
>
>Be careful of running the starter for too long a period.  I mean like just
>keeping the starter cranking and cranking until the engine finally catches.
>As you are turning over that starter, it is consuming watts (you know like
>the thing they rate light bulbs with ? volts times amps equals watts).  The
>longer you crank that starter, the hotter it will get.  Those carbon 
>brushes
>are rubbing on the armature causing heat from the resistance between the
>carbon brushes and the steel plates in the armature.  If you keep it up, it
>is possible to actually melt the solder out of the armature windings 
>causing
>the armature circuit to either short closed or to open and not conduct
>electricity any more.  I would recommend cranking for no more than a minute
>at a time and then let it sit for a minute or two to let the armature cool
>down before cranking it some more.
>
>
>
>Anyone else out there have any comments on my caution.  My dad taught this
>to me long, long ago and it still makes sense to me today.
>
>
>
>I have also made my own battery and starter cables in the past.  I once
>placed a battery in the trunk back in my drag racing days and ran cables
>back into the trunk.  I went to the local welding supply shop and bought
>some 4/0 welding cable (over ¾ inch in diameter) and bought a swaging block
>to attach the attachment lugs onto the cables.  You physically cannot get
>the copper in the cable hot enough to solder terminals onto it unless you
>dip the cable and lug assembly into a molten solder pot.  Welding cable is
>made up of lots and lots of very fine wires that are woven and braided into
>a cable shape.  These very fine, woven wires make the cable into a much 
>more
>flexible cable and I believe it will carry more current as well.  I have
>also used this technique on multiple standby batteries in my neighbors RV.
>
>
>
>Remember, when the Auto manufacturers went from 6 volt to 12 volt batteries
>and charging systems, the cable diameter shrunk significantly.
>
>
>
>I doubt however that the tech inspectors at our concourse meets would
>appreciate this as a solution.
>
>
>
>Anyway, just a caution on too much cranking on the starters.
>
>
>
>Big John Mc Adams
>
>(In SoCal)
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>Behalf Of Art Cragnotti
>Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 6:52 AM
>To: 300 Club
>Subject: [Chrysler300] slow starting 55 new yorker
>
>
>
>Hi Gang, Art here, In addition to my 300G I also have a newly restored
>'55 new yorker. It's a crapshoot whether it will start at ahy given time.
>The motor turns over very slowly like a weak battery, especially when hot.
>I still have the 6 volt system and have tried everything.rebuilt 
>starter,new
>selanoid and relay and a new battery. I know these cars started better than
>this when new so why not now. Ary suggestions??. This is probably a common
>problem and I hope somebody has a solution.
>
>Thanks Art
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>To send a message to this group, send an email to:
>Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>For list server instructions, go to
>http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm
>
>For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Advertisement: Senior Management roles paying $80k+ Search now at 
www.seek.com.au 
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eexecutive%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Ftracking%3Dsk%3Ahet%3Ase%3Anine%3A0%3Ahot%3Atext&_t=763838044&_r=seek_may07_snrmanagement&_m=EXT



To send a message to this group, send an email to:
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

For list server instructions, go to http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm

For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/ 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chrysler300/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chrysler300/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:Chrysler300-digest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    mailto:Chrysler300-fullfeatured@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/