RE: [Chrysler300] CCing to determine compression ratio
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RE: [Chrysler300] CCing to determine compression ratio
- From: "Rich Barber" <c300@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 13:23:22 -0800
I don't recall whether it was deemed to be important or worthwhile to do
this with each cylinder in each head, but I assume the purists would want to
do this for each cylinder on each side to assure even compression ratio in
each cylinder. If not uniform, some grinding might be needed to even each
cylinder out to match the maximum volume one?
Also, does one just screw in the spark plugs or try to insert a
flat-bottomed plug??
It would also seem inconsistently decked sides of the block and variations
in piston height and crankshaft configuration might all contribute to
unevenness.
So, the basic question is how far should one go to "blueprint" an engine? I
have seen on large industrial engines that individual cylinder horsepower
will vary considerably, even on a well-tuned engine. Ram effect from
varying intake manifold configurations, varying TDC's on each cylinder,
valve condition, ring condition all preclude perfect balancing. A 300 HP
V-8 will require an average HP per cylinder of 37.5 HP. You can bet that
each cylinder is making something different than 37.5 HP. Some more, some
less--and that will probably vary each revolution! That is what the
flywheel is for--to smooth this out. The most advanced ignition systems for
industrial engines actually allow adjusting the timing for each cylinder.
Better balance of horsepower between cylinders reduces the requirement that
any one cylinder has to be worked harder (and hotter) to make up for weak
cylinders. Just like life!
C-300'ly,
Rich Barber
Brentwood, CA
Engineer, Virgo
-----Original Message-----
From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Bob Jasinski
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 11:40 AM
To: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Chrysler300] CCing to determine compression ratio
Gary Barker has sent me a detailed explanation of how CCing is done. See
below for those that have an interest.
Bob J
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Barker [mailto:gbarker@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 11:03 PM
To: Bob Jasinski
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Replacing Heads & Gasket Sealer
Not at all. I wonder if I should finish the procedure and print the
Formulas to complete the subject.? Gary Barker
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Bob Jasinski" <rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 8:53 AM
To: "'Gary Barker'" <gbarker@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Replacing Heads & Gasket Sealer
> Gary,
>
> Thanks much for the details of the procedure, I had no idea it was so
> involved. And to think I thought cc meant to surface the heads! I
> think the list could benefit from this, any problem with me sharing it?
>
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Barker [mailto:gbarker@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 7:13 PM
> To: Bob Jasinski
> Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Replacing Heads & Gasket Sealer
>
> You take a peace of clear sold plastic that is larger than the cylinder.
> You
> drill a hole in the center. Then you level the head from end to end
> and also crossways. You take a small amount of grease around the
> cylinder chamber. Lay the plastic on the head so the grease seals the
chamber.
> Then
> you take a Burette that is marked in Cubic Centimeters . You can use
> any fluid but water with a little food coloring works great. You poor
> the fluid into the cylinder through the drilled hole. As you poor the
> fluid into the chamber it forces the air out. You keep pouring until
> the last little air bubble is out. Then you read how much fluid
> missing from the Beret. You need to have a 100 CC beret to start
> with because most MOPAR heads are less than 100cc The head gasket and
> the Cylinders are measured Mechanically.
> There is a
> Formula to do all the calculations. You take your Combustion Chamber,
> Head
>
> Gasket and the Deck height of the piston in the Block and the
> cylinder area with the Piston all the way down. You add all that up
> and then your total with the piston all the way up. The formula will
> give you your Compression ratio. Then if its not what you want you
> start making changes.
> Thinner or thicker head gaskets. Resurface the heads or surface the
> block.
> Removing or adding area .020" of a inch will change your compression
> approximately 0.5 compression ratio.
>
> When you are all done then you index your spark plugs .
> I hope this helps you. If you think you want to give it a try, I
> will see if I can send you a article on the whole process. It is very
> important to check if you have engine work done. Boring Raises the
> compression.
> Thicker head gasket lowers it. ( Most new Gasket sets give you .060"
> thick gasket to lower the compression to keep the Fed's happy. Most
> older MOPAR engines came with steel gaskets that are .020" thick. You
> can see how it would effect your performance. If you had 10.0 to 1
> before . just going to a .o6o" gasket will lower your compression
> down to approx. 8.0 to one.
> Lots of Luck Gary Barker
>
>
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 12:10 PM
> To: "'Gary Barker'" <gbarker@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Replacing Heads & Gasket Sealer
>
>> Gary,
>>
>> How do you go about doing this? Do you fill it with fluid and
>> measure the volume by pouring it into a measuring cup or something?
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gary Barker [mailto:gbarker@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:23 AM
>> To: Bob Jasinski
>> Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Replacing Heads & Gasket Sealer
>>
>> That's what they call it when you measure the exact size of the
>> combustion chamber. It is measured in CC's. Cubic Centimeters
>>
>>
>> Gary Barker
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Bob Jasinski" <rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:53 AM
>> To: <chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Replacing Heads & Gasket Sealer
>>
>>> Gary,
>>>
>>> What does "cc" stand for?
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>> _____
>>>
>>> From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> On Behalf Of Gary Barker
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 1:02 AM
>>> To: mplindahl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; richard@xxxxxxxxxxxx;
>>> chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; mwl1967@xxxxxxx; Gary Barker
>>> Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Replacing Heads & Gasket Sealer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I cc the heads on all Mopar engines I build. Different customers
>>> want different ratios plus if you don't you won't get the best
performance.
>>> As a rule of thumb. for every .020" that you remove either buy using
>>> different thickness gaskets or milling the head or block changes
>>> your compression about 0 .5 % so if you have 10:1 and you add .020"
>>> thicker gasket , you will have 9.5:1 compression. I try to take them
>>> to the tenth when custom building a engine. Just a Little info. Gary
>>> Barker
>>>
>>> From: <mwl1967@aol. <mailto:mwl1967%40aol.com> com>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:15 PM
>>> To: <mplindahl@sbcglobal <mailto:mplindahl%40sbcglobal.net> .net>;
>>> <richard@zippynet. <mailto:richard%40zippynet.com> com>;
>>> <chrysler300@ <mailto:chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> yahoogroups.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Replacing Heads & Gasket Sealer
>>>
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 1/28/2008 1:02:18 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
>>>> mplindahl@sbcglobal <mailto:mplindahl%40sbcglobal.net> .net writes:
>>>>
>>>> FYI, I am using the newer style, open-chamber heads that I was told
>>>> are desirable for the gas these days.
>>>> The head surface was machined to guarantee flatness
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Years ago when I built the 413 for my 300K I scoffed a pair of
>>>> recently rebuilt heads off of a 440 that was to be a race engine.
>>>> The problem, I later found out was that the compression was lowered
>>>> way too much in changing from a closed-chamber head with steel shim
>>>> gaskets to an open chamber head with composite gaskets.
>>>>
>>>> Although the car essentially runs fine, crossrams and all, it has
>>>> never had the guts to really pull the car hard. ( just ask don Cole
>>>> LOL ) Later calculations indicated that the compression was dropped
>>>> from around 9.5:1 down to around 8:1 with a corresponding loss of
>>>> torque and HP. Several experts have told me I killed a minimum of
>>>> 50hp. The bright side of the picture is that
>>>
>>>> the
>>>> car runs all day long on 87 octane garbage with nary a hint of
>>>> detonation.
>>>>
>>>> When this 16 year old engine gets redone again I'll be going back
>>>> to the closed chamber heads. If you must use the open chamber heads
>>>> you already have please consider using the oem style steel shim
>>>> gaskets so as to mitigate compression loss.
>>>>
>>>> Mike Laiserin
>>>> Phoenix, AZ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
>>>> http://body.
>>> <http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp003000000024
>>> 89
>>> >
>>> aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To send a message to this group, send an email to:
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To send a message to this group, send an email to:
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>>>
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>>
>>
>
>
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