Re: [Chrysler300] authenticity re 300s ??!!

["George Riehl" <longrams@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

All conversation here on is viable as to "what a 300 should be from the factory". We all know that there are some items that are no longer available, there were some "strange" things from the factory. Nothing is written in "stone". 
  The object for a "guidline" is just that, to guide someone in their restoration. It is not a "concours" guide. One can only do the best on a "restoration" with what is available today. And, believe me, it is a tough job just to find parts that will fit or even look somewhat original. Replacement pistons, bearings, camshafts, valves, guides, interiors, carpet, brake shoes, seals, etc, are non-factory, non-original, but are the closest thing to "restore" a car to operating condition. Remanufactured plastic emblems, glass.  Quarter panels, rocker panels, floors, two stage paint, etc.    

As in many conversations with members thru the years that I have had, I state, "it is your car and you can do anything you want to do to it". If one makes "alterations", it's their business. Just do not enter the car in concours judging. Do not represent it as a "authenticallty restored" vehicle.  Many just want the 300 to be a driver, dependable on the road. Some want more performance, some want reliabillty. Disc brakes, radial tires, 7 button ratios (non factory), alternators, hi-torque starters on 727 bellhousings, quartz clocks, replacement interiors, added non factory items all relate to "clones'" or "reconstructed" cars (favorite wording at the auctions). These cars are not qualified at our judging. They shouldn't even be qualified for Peoples Choice judging. These are/should be "display" cars only. Take them to a general car show, they look pretty and get attention by the unknowing public. If it is trophies and awards one wants, do the general car shows.  
But after all of this, it is the owner that what makes the car what it is!
   George Riehl  





  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: christopher beilby 
  To: ron300C waters ; wayne Gs current 08email 
  Cc: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:22 PM
  Subject: [Chrysler300] authenticity re 300s ??!!



  As usual I speak from afar, so excuse me if I do not fully understand. This likely will not be my last post, but it soon maybe my last for a while, so either delete now, or read on.

  Normally one would asume if one is trying to return a 300 to how when brand new it left the Factory or Dealer,

  (and that already opens a 300 can of worms - like which is more correct/relevant - namely which is more important??!! The car that was made, or the car that was supplied/used??!!),

  then one would assume it should be as clse as possible to correct?

  This happens with Shelby Cobras, early 50s Ferrari, rarer early Jaguar, and no doubt Dusenbergs, pre WWII finer Cadillacs, etc..

  And so then we come to Ron Water's perhaps good question, and the 300 Club Judging Criteria - such as tailight lenses. And about all this - what is said '300 Judgingwise' correct, and what is said not - I know nothing.

  But it suprised me, in restoring one of my 300Cs:

  1) that there seemingly is much still to be documented in one form/publication, where all that should by now be known, is recorded, publically available?!

  2) that there is seemingly no well pointed out 'public list' of what is allowed re Club Judging, that is non factory, or should that be 'non dealer' !??

  (ie what if a 300 shows what was not a factory microfish spec, but is maybe a Dealer add on?! - or worse - a later owner, add on??!! (such as how many 300Cs left Dealers with two/both outside rear view mirrors?!! Personally the now so common two mirrors is OK/fine with me,, but how may this be viewed in 20-50 years - is it important??!!)))

  To me, any 300 if it as owner wishes, and not harmfully modified, then that is a 300, and not to be looked on with scorn. I have one 300C I drive that willl never (maybe?) be a show car. But then if one wishes to do a 300C correct, it suprises me I yet to learn who has the really 100% definitive list of how one should be?!. And to me if one is going to say Chrysler Dealer supplied Glo Brite lenses that have different markings lose points (maybe correctly so, if they unavaible while cars still in production/new?) that list should also include what special Chrysler marked nuts and bolts that hold the car together are correct, and ALL items that are correct Chrysler date marked should be used. ( Factory bolts in some, many, key areas may be structural, so using generic made in China poorer quality steel bolts maybe not safe, never mind not right??!!)

  Otherwise it is double standards to say that particular lens has wrong letters at base, yet for eg not look at say the date stampings on brake booster face plate, to see if it is not maybe also a later item?! Both are just as visible, so why pick on a lens, yet not the other part?

  I am not saying a 300 is wrong because it may have later parts, just that if someone really wants to bother doing a 300 that little bit better 'correct', that at least 300 members have a best available guide to help. Plus - as with Ferrai, etc - a car judged correct, should be correct?!! OK allow wrong modern tyres, other hard to get items, but surely document, award differently if desired, if a car uses ALL/more correct parts?! (this may be seen as extreme say 20 years ago, but with 300 values for some 300 models way higher today, there a need for higher knowledge of what correct?!)

  In doing my 300C recently I have found additional detail/questions re 300C 'originality re factory build', yet the Club author of the supposed (and likely) best current 300C guide, seems somewhat 'prickly' sometimes re some matters if they not his exact 'viewpoint/whatever'?, never mind has published in his 300C handbook for years wrong detail re my supercharged 300C, otherwise I would have passed all I have found onto him, but from his zero reply re first few I wrote him about, it seems he does not want to know, so I raise it here for other 300 members to suggest a better future solution, that if anyone cares? And this is no comment/reflection re him - the Club is lucky he put his time and effort into publishing what he has.

  My Membership comes due soon, and so it might be timely I may give all/any of you bored by my often overlong posts a break as I let it lapse for a period before renewing at some later time, plus while I wait and see if the wrong entry that has gone out for years in this semi 300 Club publication publishes a correction?! 

  Until now I chose to ignore this somewhat Club endorsed 'wrong publication', but I feel it time that the author either put up why he knows he is correct re what he has said for years, or otherwise retracts??! And likewise, he has again chosen to refuse to respond.

  I will let my Membership matter go a few months - maybe he may be better placed re any reply, plus those who feel their view is the only view/way/rule if that is how it is?! The Club should be about sharing the wealth of knowledge that 300 owners have/find, putting it on paper for all. That is how the Shelby register has worked/grown/survived/prospered for over 30 years. It stuns me how little is on public record re the pre 300H 300s, while so many menmbers know so much that each year becomes more threatened to be lost forever? Why - who is afraid of it all being out there - who wants to nick that special/rare/super low miles 300 - what crazy/wrong reason exists for not doing it?! Or does it just need someone being appointed to start it all?! Chrysler's 1955 - early 60s 300 story is pretty special, why not try to get it written down before so much more of it is lost - plus get real serious re 300 resto guides for all years if it felt appropriate?! 

  There are many many true great 300 Members, the 300Club International is a credit to those serving Officers who love and wish to see endure 300s, and I am planning to get to the US later this year, hopefully do the big drive around, and I look forward to meeting those I have got to know,

  Christopher Australia - ps light rain just last days has maybe totally finished fires, fire risk, for this summer. Drought still on over most of southern part of nation though.


  To: wgraefen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  CC: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  From: ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx
  Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:40:09 -0400
  Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Re: OEM vs. Glo-Brite

  >They said the '57 Chrysler was the ONLY Chrysler specific tail lens they 
  >had ever made though they had made numerous Plymouth and Dodge lenses. 
  >Part of the reason they made it was that the factory supply of OEM lenses 
  >from Auto-Lite was fairly quickly used up by Mopar service parts and they 
  >were asked to supply Mopar and they did. This is why you will find 
  >Glo-Brite "CY-3" and "CY-4" lenses in Mopar boxes with Mopar packaging.

  So based on this information, it sounds like Glo-Brite was a vendor for 
  Chrysler and the CY-3/4 lenses would/should be considered OEM correct even 
  by the club's concours standards. Any thoughts ?

  Ron 

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