[Chrysler300] Re: let 300 Club readers decide an end to this

["James" <jdelrae1@xxxxxxx>]

Wayne, I do not know you, but in my years in the club I have heard nothing but good things about you.  This is a great club with great people.  Do not let this go on publicly any longer, be the bigger man and bow out..  PLEASE! I am tired of it and could care less about it and who's car is better and worth more.. Really that is what this is about, I just like 300's.
Jim
300E
--- In Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Wayne Graefen" <wgraefen@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Chrysler 300 Club, 
> 
> Please respond regarding the email below which was posted by Christopher Beilby.  I would like to know how many other posts Mr. Beilby has made besmirching my good name, or regarding my restoration guide the 300C Handbook, or the 300C I own known as Kiekhaefer's Road America competition model.
> 
> Also, what would happen with this post having been addressed to the club?   Would it be distributed to the general members or a email group?  Thank you.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Wayne R. Graefen
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: christopher beilby 
> To: wayne Gs current 08email ; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> Cc: 300 Club photo man ; lettercars@... 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 5:53 PM
> Subject: RE: let 300 Club readers decide an end to this
> 
> 
> Wayne there is much in the below copy of your email you apparently posted on the Club Website that contains errors I believe.
> And unfortunately I believe you use these errors as a basis to discredit me, my car, which is not acceptable.  The whole post by you should be withdrawn, and a formal aplology for errors in it offered.  And as an attachment, I include again my final statement re how I believe what is currently known re the history of my car - this posted on the Club website dated March 17 (server's time/date). I suggest you read it and see what I said/claim in it.
>  
> As part of thart apology, I would like this March 17 statement of what I believe to be the history of my car posted again with that apology.  You or the Club need not endorse what I said in my March 17 statement, nor say the Club accepts that everything in it is 100% true, but that is how after 3 years research, and based upon the original owner's signed history of the car, it is currently believed by Beilby to be correct. And I believe the damage you usiing these errors has done me and my car also warrants a printed formal similar thing in the next Club printed newsletter as part of the Editorial usually contained in each issue.
>  
> I now give just a few of what I believe are some of the too many errors by you?
> 1) In the second para you start "Beilby has challenged me..... why his supercharged car should not be considered as a highly important and historic car equal to..."
>  
> Wayne I did not do that, that statement is entirely false, where did I make such a challenge?  The only references I made to any other cars was that there was sometimes a lack of Factory documentation re some cars, and I then gave examples known of.
>  
> 2) A perhaps even simpler to see immediately clearer error.  As justification for you saying the car was in very poor condition when you saw it years ago, you claim on the STORIES page of the Club I quote "Interior shot", whereas it reads "Shot of interior".  Two totally different things, and the photo of interior does NOT show a shot interior?
> (And my mentioning lower body rust does not mean the car was so poor, very many now restored 300Cs had lower body rust.)
>  
> 3) large throat air cleaner remarks by you - you are the one in your Authentiicity Section of your book, page 6, who says they are rare, quote known only to "motor number nine", and then your whole final para on that page covers "One 300C owner has a set" ..... houses what are possibly prototype filter elements  .... yellow.... carry no identification."   Your words - "one"   !!  And yet when I say my car has what I believe is rare large throat air cleaner type, you now say they are not rare, despite this a seeming total conflict with what you state on page 6 of your own publication?!
>  
> 4) Manual steering, your comments here are totally out of line. 
> (a) Where do I state in my March 17 posting that my car was the only 300C fitted with manual steering?
> Over the last months, I have used only repeatedly words similar to others have used where they have a 300C that is somewhat different in that manual steering was seemingly specificaly asked for.
> (b)  And if one/you ignores all that, what about my point that Gil advised me microfish show there was seemingly some problem re some other Dec 1956 300Cs ordered then with manual steering, were instead sent out with power steering?  Is Gil the Authority on microfish, or is it now you?
>  
> 5) numerous other concerning points:
> (a) "by a name totally lost to history" - your words re the Original Owner and Dealer - what is the position re defamation in the US, I would think you should be more mindful than including statements such as this?
> (b) your comments re drag racing - I find this most negative, and it seems your sole point/objective, is too reduce/damage the value of my car?!  And are you trying to say all ex drag cars are valueless the more they were raced?
>  
> There is much more I could say, but it is far simpler your post be formally withdrawn by either you or the Club, and that also at the same time that apology include the March 17 email detail I attach, as you have I believe used the Club and it's site to damage what is believed the history of my car, never mind maybe defamed me, plus maybe my car's original Owner/Dealer by the whole tone/errors of your post.
>  
> yours sincerely Christopher Beilby
>  
> cc please to all 300 Club Int Directors and Office Holders
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> From: wgraefen@...
> To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> CC: thelastbestgenius@...
> Subject: Re:let 300 Club readers decide an end to this
> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:21:48 -0500
> 
> 
> 
> There is LOGICAL discussion to be read here for any member.
> 
> Beilby has challenged me to state through photos and paperwork why his supercharged car should not be considered as a highly important and historic modified car equal to other cars such as my Kiekhaefer Road America competition model 300C or by association any other Kiekhaefer race car.   That is EXACTLY BACKWARDS LOGIC for proving provenance of a car.  The burden of proof is on the owner of the car.  I didn't take photos of your car Mr. Beilby when I saw it years ago in California because it was not worthy of the film and its paperwork showed me nothing noteworthy or you can bet I would have been all over that file with my camera.  You do the work.  You have provided me with nothing.  What is this about two factory supercharged cars?   Gil can correct me if I am wrong because I believe he and I discussed the McCulloch supercharging of your C an awfully long time ago as well as the Latham supercharger on the car customized in California and there was never anything on any 300C that went out to a dealer from the factory except dual quads and one car with a single four barrel.  McColloch and Latham both offered aftermarket kits to the public for anyone to buy and the two examples noted just now were certainly not the only two Letter Cars to ever wear those kits.  The car Mr. Beilby owns may have been ordered with the intent to purchase one of those aftermarket kits but there is no way it left Jefferson Avenue with a supercharger or support equipment.  Mr. Beilby no matter how often you state something it is NOT going to make it into truth.  Get over it.
> 
> Mr. Beilby, QUOTE this "hand written history" where the owner "states that Chrysler started the supercharger installation".   Quote it in full and in context.  Send it to me and to Gil.  That is the proper way to do this if you want some results.  Better yet send us a photo copy of that whole history.  Every page.  Why didn't you do this years ago?
> 
> Everyone, let's understand this about ALL 300Cs.   Manual steering was STANDARD in 1957 for the 300C.  You had to specify and pay extra to get power steering.  The fact that Beilby's car has manual steering means diddly squat.  NO PROBLEM for Chrysler there!  Where does Beilby get this as a problem?   There are numerous "large throat" air cleaner sets around Mr. Beilby, and I've written to you about them simply being the earliest production iteration of three types that were used; you have nothing special.   I never said they were "never released" - where do you get this stuff?   You won't accept what I say the first, second or third time I say it so I quit writing to you because it is futile.  You are a waste of time because you won't listen to answers you don't agree with.
> 
> Regarding the 300F Specials.  Beilby is SORROWFULLY unqualified to write ANY comment about those cars.  All he can do is lead to misunderstandings and muddy history much worse than it is.  But your board lets him roll on and on.   I don't call the shots on those cars, Mr. Beilby; I just happen to be the proud owner of one and believe I have run every point about them you have ever heard through Gil Cunningham at one juncture or another over time.
> 
> Is there special value associated with some cars that are modified after they leave the factory?  I am in no way denying that.  It depends on their history and their ownership entirely.  No one can deny that the fellow who paid a few million extra for the Shelby Super Snake that Carroll Shelby himself owned and modified bought a modified Shelby.   Yet another Shelby bought by Joe Schmuck and drag raced to death is worth a mere pittance.  They are both Shelbys aren't they?    Similar case here.   A Chrysler 300 modified for racing and titled to Carl Kiekhaefer and Mercury Marine is one whole helluva lot different than one that was driven to Daytona beach by a name totally lost to history where the engine seized and then the car was subjected to a decade of the most abusive form of motorsport: drag racing.   Why do I keep saying  the car was in such poor condition?  You've given the club web page reference in your post and the pictures and your comments are there.  "The interior is shot" (your words).  The "painted over lower body rust" (your words) ran front to rear.  "The car was not as good as it looks in these photos".   And you had the wisdom to buy it sight unseen, Mr. Beilby.   
> 
> I am being widely accused of ignoring Mr. Beilby's points on authenticity not only by Mr. Beilby but by others.    HOG WASH.   If y'all expect me to answer every one of those points then find a volunteer to sift through the hundreds and thousands of words that Mr. Beilby writes and the extreme misuse of English sentence structure and punctuation and RESTATE what those authenticity points are and I'll address them then and not a moment sooner.  If someone else wants the job of '57 Model Year Consultant for this club and can field garbage as well as I'm doing, apply to my email address.  Y'all come.
> 
> Will Mr. Beilby actually restrain himself from posting or will the Electronics Committee actually remove his email stopping his ability to post?    
> 
> Wayne Graefen
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Explore the new Windows Live. Looking for a place to manage all your online stuff? 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




------------------------------------

To send a message to this group, send an email to:
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

For list server instructions, go to http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm

For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chrysler300/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chrysler300/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:Chrysler300-digest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    mailto:Chrysler300-fullfeatured@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    Chrysler300-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/