Re: [Chrysler300] Re: let 300 Club readers decide an end to this
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Re: [Chrysler300] Re: let 300 Club readers decide an end to this
- From: moparpjf@xxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:15:13 EDT
Wayne - I have said this before and I will say it again now. The only way
to bring this to an end is to use the delete function and simply delete his
e-mails without reading them. We know you - we know your handbook and we know
your cars. Nobody gives him or his posts any credence whatsoever, so why get
upset over it. This should be water off a duck for you - you shouldn't
dignify his rantings with answers, especially when you know that it will only
bring on more of the same. I am sure you have better things to do.
Respectfully,
Pete Fitch
In a message dated 3/18/2009 8:26:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
wgraefen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
Dear Chrysler 300 Club,
Please respond regarding the email below which was posted by Christopher
Beilby. I would like to know how many other posts Mr. Beilby has made
besmirching my good name, or regarding my restoration guide the 300C Handbook, or the
300C I own known as Kiekhaefer's Road America competition model.
Also, what would happen with this post having been addressed to the club?
Would it be distributed to the general members or a email group? Thank you.
Sincerely,
Wayne R. Graefen
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----- Original Message -----
From: christopher beilby
To: wayne Gs current 08email ; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: 300 Club photo man ; lettercars@xxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 5:53 PM
Subject: RE: let 300 Club readers decide an end to this
Wayne there is much in the below copy of your email you apparently posted on
the Club Website that contains errors I believe.
And unfortunately I believe you use these errors as a basis to discredit me,
my car, which is not acceptable. The whole post by you should be withdrawn,
and a formal aplology for errors in it offered. And as an attachment, I
include again my final statement re how I believe what is currently known re the
history of my car - this posted on the Club website dated March 17 (server's
time/date). I suggest you read it and see what I said/claim in it.
As part of thart apology, I would like this March 17 statement of what I
believe to be the history of my car posted again with that apology. You or the
Club need not endorse what I said in my March 17 statement, nor say the Club
accepts that everything in it is 100% true, but that is how after 3 years
research, and based upon the original owner's signed history of the car, it is
currently believed by Beilby to be correct. And I believe the damage you
usiing these errors has done me and my car also warrants a printed formal similar
thing in the next Club printed newsletter as part of the Editorial usually
contained in each issue.
I now give just a few of what I believe are some of the too many errors by
you?
1) In the second para you start "Beilby has challenged me..... why his
supercharged car should not be considered as a highly important and historic car
equal to..."
Wayne I did not do that, that statement is entirely false, where did I make
such a challenge? The only references I made to any other cars was that
there was sometimes a lack of Factory documentation re some cars, and I then gave
examples known of.
2) A perhaps even simpler to see immediately clearer error. As
justification for you saying the car was in very poor condition when you saw it years
ago, you claim on the STORIES page of the Club I quote "Interior shot", whereas
it reads "Shot of interior". Two totally different things, and the photo of
interior does NOT show a shot interior?
(And my mentioning lower body rust does not mean the car was so poor, very
many now restored 300Cs had lower body rust.)
3) large throat air cleaner remarks by you - you are the one in your
Authentiicity Section of your book, page 6, who says they are rare, quote known only
to "motor number nine", and then your whole final para on that page covers
"One 300C owner has a set" ..... houses what are possibly prototype filter
elements .... yellow.... carry no identification." Your words - "one" !!
And yet when I say my car has what I believe is rare large throat air cleaner
type, you now say they are not rare, despite this a seeming total conflict
with what you state on page 6 of your own publication?!
4) Manual steering, your comments here are totally out of line.
(a) Where do I state in my March 17 posting that my car was the only 300C
fitted with manual steering?
Over the last months, I have used only repeatedly words similar to others
have used where they have a 300C that is somewhat different in that manual
steering was seemingly specificaly asked for.
(b) And if one/you ignores all that, what about my point that Gil advised
me microfish show there was seemingly some problem re some other Dec 1956
300Cs ordered then with manual steering, were instead sent out with power
steering? Is Gil the Authority on microfish, or is it now you?
5) numerous other concerning points:
(a) "by a name totally lost to history" - your words re the Original Owner
and Dealer - what is the position re defamation in the US, I would think you
should be more mindful than including statements such as this?
(b) your comments re drag racing - I find this most negative, and it seems
your sole point/objective, is too reduce/damage the value of my car?! And are
you trying to say all ex drag cars are valueless the more they were raced?
There is much more I could say, but it is far simpler your post be formally
withdrawn by either you or the Club, and that also at the same time that
apology include the March 17 email detail I attach, as you have I believe used
the Club and it's site to damage what is believed the history of my car, never
mind maybe defamed me, plus maybe my car's original Owner/Dealer by the whole
tone/errors of your post.
yours sincerely Christopher Beilby
cc please to all 300 Club Int Directors and Office Holders
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From: wgraefen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
CC: thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re:let 300 Club readers decide an end to this
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:21:48 -0500
There is LOGICAL discussion to be read here for any member.
Beilby has challenged me to state through photos and paperwork why his su
percharged car should not be considered as a highly important and historic
modified car equal to other cars such as my Kiekhaefer Road America competition
model 300C or by association any other Kiekhaefer race car. That is EXACTLY
BACKWARDS LOGIC for proving provenance of a car. The burden of proof is on
the owner of the car. I didn't take photos of your car Mr. Beilby when I saw
it years ago in California because it was not worthy of the film and its
paperwork showed me nothing noteworthy or you can bet I would have been all over
that file with my camera. You do the work. You have provided me with
nothing. What is this about two factory supercharged cars? Gil can correct me if
I am wrong because I believe he and I discussed the McCulloch supercharging
of your C an awfully long time ago as well as the Latham supercharger on the
car customized in California and there was never anything on any 300C that
went out to a dealer from the factory except dual quads and one car with a
single four barrel. McColloch and Latham both offered aftermarket kits to the
public for anyone to buy and the two examples noted just now were certainly not
the only two Letter Cars to ever wear those kits. The car Mr. Beilby owns
may have been ordered with the intent to purchase one of those aftermarket
kits but there is no way it left Jefferson Avenue with a supercharger or support
equipment. Mr. Beilby no matter how often you state something it is NOT
going to make it into truth. Get over it.
Mr. Beilby, QUOTE this "hand written history" where the owner "states that
Chrysler started the supercharger installation". Quote it in full and in
context. Send it to me and to Gil. That is the proper way to do this if you
want some results. Better yet send us a photo copy of that whole history.
Every page. Why didn't you do this years ago?
Everyone, let's understand this about ALL 300Cs. Manual steering was
STANDARD in 1957 for the 300C. You had to specify and pay extra to get power
steering. The fact that Beilby's car has manual steering means diddly squat.
NO PROBLEM for Chrysler there! Where does Beilby get this as a problem?
There are numerous "large throat" air cleaner sets around Mr. Beilby, and I've
written to you about them simply being the earliest production iteration of
three types that were used; you have nothing special. I never said they were
"never released" - where do you get this stuff? You won't accept what I say
the first, second or third time I say it so I quit writing to you because it
is futile. You are a waste of time because you won't listen to answers you
don't agree with.
Regarding the 300F Specials. Beilby is SORROWFULLY unqualified to write ANY
comment about those cars. All he can do is lead to misunderstandings and
muddy history much worse than it is. But your board lets him roll on and on.
I don't call the shots on those cars, Mr. Beilby; I just happen to be the
proud owner of one and believe I have run every point about them you have ever
heard through Gil Cunningham at one juncture or another over time.
Is there special value associated with some cars that are modified after
they leave the factory? I am in no way denying that. It depends on their
history and their ownership entirely. No one can deny that the fellow who paid a
few million extra for the Shelby Super Snake that Carroll Shelby himself
owned and modified bought a modified Shelby. Yet another Shelby bought by Joe
Schmuck and drag raced to death is worth a mere pittance. They are both
Shelbys aren't they? Similar case here. A Chrysler 300 modified for racing
and titled to Carl Kiekhaefer and Mercury Marine is one whole helluva lot
different than one that was driven to Daytona beach by a name totally lost to
history where the engine seized and then the car was subjected to a decade of
the most abusive form of motorsport: drag racing. Why do I keep saying the
car was in such poor condition? You've given the club web page reference in
your post and the pictures and your comments are there. "The interior is
shot" (your words). The "painted over lower body rust" (your words) ran front to
rear. "The car was not as good as it looks in these photos". And you had
the wisdom to buy it sight unseen, Mr. Beilby.
I am being widely accused of ignoring Mr. Beilby's points on authenticity
not only by Mr. Beilby but by others. HOG WASH. If y'all expect me to
answer every one of those points then find a volunteer to sift through the
hundreds and thousands of words that Mr. Beilby writes and the extreme misuse of
English sentence structure and punctuation and RESTATE what those authenticity
points are and I'll address them then and not a moment sooner. If someone
else wants the job of '57 Model Year Consultant for this club and can field
garbage as well as I'm doing, apply to my email address. Y'all come.
Will Mr. Beilby actually restrain himself from posting or will the
Electronics Committee actually remove his email stopping his ability to post?
Wayne Graefen
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