[Chrysler300] 1960 300F Special 400 HP & daytona sand query

[christopher beilby <thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

No one else has I think yet replied to the query about preparing the beach/sand for the years the 300s ran on the beach, before most of the annual events moved to Bill France's new banked Daytona track late 50s.

 

Andy I think told me he was going to the Daytona Museum, such as it is re early Daytona days, so maybe he can add to what I have found out re researching my supercharged 300C running there early 1957.

 

Amongst the original Daytona items I have purchased is a shot of an old red painted beach sign. The words on the sign detail how by the time the southern swept sand has travelled the US east Coast, reached Daytona, it is perfect to pack fine and tight/hard, and how the ocean sweep then does that perfectly.

 

The events on the beach were run when the tides was out, so the widest possible hard sand was exposed. 1956 seeemingly saw perfect conditions. 1957 was however a very bad year, this according to near all the written reports in the abouit 10 major US publications I have found/bought that featured that year in their monthly annual issues, usually about 4-6 weeks after annual Feb time.

>From memory, they say near the whole first week was useless, too much loose drift sand. They tried to get around these conditions by running the less important events/cars.

 

And then when the ocean/winds finally came good to sweep the loose stuff away, the Flying Mile run/site was left with a sort of washaway that ate into the run mid course, that saw/caused (higher speed) competitors to have to slow and do a slight bend/turn.  Many of the magazine reports feature the 57 Tbird that crashed/rolled as a result.
 

The Factory 1957 300Cs ran slower than the previous year's smaller engined 300Bs. Mercury Outboards' Carl K was reported as attending, and is recorded as announcing just after that that he would not compete the new 300Cs. What effect on 300C lower top speeds was the bad sand, versus the new bad windstream/areodynamic jutted forward 1957 shape, is maybe still unknown, but whatever Mercury Racing/300s were out from Daytona on. Chrysler I think it is well documented, post Daytona ran 300Cs to see what they maybe should have got for top speeds Daytona 1957, had conditions been better.

However not only Chrysler was disappointed, a Factory Corvette (small block obviously) is mentioned in some magazines Daytona Reports saying that Chevrolet had been pre Daytona running some real impressive times on their (bitumen) test facility, but at Daytona 1957 lost about near 40 mph top speed!!!  Only two cars seemed to handle Daytona 1957's conditions - Pontiac, and Ford, with their large cube injected motors, and supercharged smaller 312s. I often wonder was Chrysler's injected car 'clutch blow up', a convenient way for the factory to get out of not running a embarassing 'not much higher' 1957 Factory Entry top speed - Corvette/GM were stunned, and it beggars belief that Chrysler with such a huge reported resource/facilities at Daytona 1957, could not replace a clutch disc!!?  Daytona 1957 seemingly taught GM and Chrysler injection was a loser for beach conditions - Pontiac's torque/savy, plus Ford's big cubes Tbird specials and supercharging however worked OK?!

 

And it is said Daytona 1957 being so bad re beach condition, was what saw Bill France finally get his much dreamed banked superbowl funded/built. This and crowds of apparently near 200,000 attending over the whole multi weeks event.

 

If I have any of the above wrong, please correct me - Daytona is a much under-reported/documented real great piece of America's Auto History - it's 'halocyn mid 50s heydays', only very brief, re it's long history from the early 1900s, re being the site for may record, high speed, US auto achievements.

 

Of 'maybe' interest to 300 owners, the key frantic, most achieving period, co-incided with the 300s birth (1955)thru, to iconic 300s such as the upcoming auction 1960 300F, and also the double blown 300F special of Granatelli, which he apparently has never sold, let go.

 

Add to that it maybe Daytona 1957 being the 'birth' of Wally Parkes great rise to notice/fame, when he ran a hemi '57 Plymouth hotrod/special, under "Hot Rod" magazine sponsorship - Wally went on to guide/father the NHRA. 

Wally was most likely very glad my supercharged 300C was not fully sorted at Daytona 1957, it only running just under the 150 mph mark on it's unfinished 2nd run, but that still above Wally's runs.  Wally was later given permission to run again, at events end, when beach had finally come good, and now with his car faired/streamlined for least drag, and he he now ran the amazing times recorded in "Hod Rod" mags 1957 report.

 

Sadly for me, I only learned the Wally Parkes built his car aimed at the exact same special category that my car's builders aimed my supercharged 300C for, that event major sponsor "PURE OIL" had set up for non factory entries, just after Wally passed on. Wally may for sure have noticed my car - his hemi injected, mine supercharged, they both new/current '57 Mopar coupes. If he noticed it, I am sure he would have likely remembered it, but anything re that is lost now. Plus Wally may have been able to say/record, what happened to the %7 Plymouth Coupe after it ran Daytona and I think then Bonneville, but correct me if my memory wrong re Bonne?

 

Here's hoping all and anything re the upcoming 300F's runs at 1960 Daytona is well recorded and added to as much as possible before all those who may know the smallest bits of trivia are lost/gone ?!!

 

Christopher Australia - last 3 days over 110 degrees, yesterday and today 115 degrees - the sun is like a fire on your skin, even at 7pm dusk, and temperature at night over 100 degrees even at midnight. Fruit trees maybe knew it to be a hot summer, near no fruit developed !!! Cool change tipped tonight, so maybe this bad heat not as bad as US and Europe 300 members current ice/winter

 

 


To: kboonstra@xxxxxxxxxxxx
CC: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: r41hp@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 08:02:32 -0800
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 1960 300F Special 400 HP

  



Hi Keith, and all,

The whereabouts and history of this car have been know its entire life. Mike Burke, George Riehl, and I were there when Gregg Ziegler signed the affidavit, as well as signed the car itself on the ram manifold and the glovebox door. I have photos of him doing it.

Also, though no one had actually seen it for a while it has 11K miles and it's not restored; it's the second best original condition tailfin-era Chrysler I've ever seen. Point being, it didn't resurface as a refinished car someone might have built up. Don't think there are any mysteries here.

Andy Mikonis
in snowy Chicago

--- On Wed, 1/6/10, Keith Boonstra <kboonstra@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Keith Boonstra <kboonstra@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 1960 300F Special 400 HP
To: "Richard Barber" <c300@xxxxxxx>
Cc: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 3:12 PM

 

At the figure this one is likely to fetch after all the promotion, I 

would think the buyer ought to have perfect assurance that this very car 

is one Gregg Ziegler drove for that momentous record.. What if this one 

crosses the block at some huge number, and it later turns out to be 

identical to, but not the actual, black 300F that set the record 

shattering mile at 144.927. I don't see on this website the actual 

provenance - the chain of ownership demonstrating this is the very one. 

I'm not saying I have any reason to distrust or doubt it, but it really 

needs to be ascertained lest a new owner find himself sadly surprised.

One detail in this regard that caught my eye on the Russo & Steele site 

was the the affidavit said to be signed by Gregg Ziegler. Why does it 

bear the signature date of 11/9/08 when the printout of the affidavit is 

10/02/08 (and even over-printed on 9/17/08)/ A skeptic might wonder if 

perhaps the current owner may have sent the filled out form to Mr. 

Ziegler on 10/02/08, and that Mr. Ziegler then signed and returned it a 

month or so later to the current owner without actually knowing whether 

this was the serial number of the car he drove. Was it perhaps a 

different black 300F Special - one of the other eight that were built? 

Did this one actually make the trip to Daytona? Was it one that ran 

there but didn't win?

Everything's probably just fine here, but I'd rather be careful ahead 

than sorry later. Burt or Gil, is the provenance of 300F #8403110398 

known for certain?

Keith Boonstra

Holland MI

Richard Barber wrote:

> 

>

> Interesting story accompanying a special F going to auction later this

> month: http://tinyurl. com/ydpjdh2 <http://tinyurl. com/ydpjdh2>

>

> Rich Barber

>

>

> 

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