Re: [Chrysler300] Fwd: [Imperial-Club] Ethanol evaporation

["Gary Barker" <gbarker@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I don’t know if there are many members that ever rebuilt a old Carburetor that has been setting around for a long time.  The Leather Pump would shrink up. .  I used to either soak them in Gas or some times I would soak the pump in oil if I was going to let it set for a long time.
Some of the old repair kits would recommend soaking the pump in Gas before assembling.  I think that’s why they finally switched to Neoprene.
I believe pumping a dry  Leather pump for any length of time will do slight damage to the pump .   The Gas acts as a lubricant.

   Just my experience and opinion.     Gary Barker




  From: retromobilia@xxxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 1:32 PM
To: Chrysler300 
Cc: bob hayen Chrysler 300F 
Subject: [Chrysler300] Fwd: [Imperial-Club] Ethanol evaporation

  
any comments on this Chrysler info. 

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "C Bilter" <mailto:cbilter%40mchsi.com> 
To: mailto:Imperial-Club%40yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:07:30 PM 
Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] Ethanol evaporation 

This is what I was taught by a long time Mopar expert many years ago. I don’t know if “stretch” is the proper term or not; perhaps someone who knows more about carbs can weigh in. But I have seen the effects of pumping a dry carb and it ruins the pump. 

From: Danno 
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 1:49 PM 
To: mailto:Imperial-Club%40yahoogroups.com 
Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] Ethanol evaporation 

How does the accelerator pump leather get stretched? I don't understand how pumping would stretch the leather on the accelerator pump. If it were dry it would tend to be shrunk down some and have less pressure on the walls of the pump well, but even if it wasn't shrunk I don't see how the pump piston simply moving up and down in the pump well would stretch the leather. 

Danno 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: C Bilter 
To: mailto:Imperial-Club%40yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:18 AM 
Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] Ethanol evaporation 

I would exercise some caution about “pumping” the accelerator pedal with a dry carb after a dry winter of sitting. After a few months of sitting, most if not all of the fuel in the carb has evaporated, and probably much or most of the fuel in the fuel filter and line to the carb. If you have the leather-type accelerator pump in the carb (pre-late 70’s), it will be dry. Pumping will stretch the dry leather and will quickly ruin the accelerator pump. I have seen many cars where this has happened. If you have a properly working fuel pump then all you should need to do is carefully manually set the choke closed by hand under the hood, and crank the engine in several increments of 15 seconds or so. This will draw fuel up through the system and it also builds oil pressure. The car likely will start without any pumping if everything is in tune, but after cranking some you can pump the pedal once or twice if necessary to hasten starting. Anyway, this procedure dramatically increases the longevity of the accelerator pump. 

As discussed earlier, some folks just pour some gas in the bowls to hasten starting (but you might get clattering lifters at first due to low oil pressure), and some folks use an electric fuel pump to draw the fuel up after sitting a long time to avoid the cranking and battery drain. The electric fuel pumps are especially handy on the crossram 300s which have dual four bbl carbs that both need gas. 

Carl B 
From: Allen C. Fownes 
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 6:47 PM 
To: mailto:Imperial-Club%40yahoogroups.com 
Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] Ethanol evaporation 

I read about carburetor 'leakdown' which can damage your valves and rings. 
My newly rebuilt Holley does not leak down. I pump it a half dozen times 
after a winter of sitting and it starts right away. 

The previous one needed a lot of pumping to prime it after sitting for a 
few days. 
On Mar 23, 2013 4:15 AM, "Danno" <mailto:danteeqs%40sbcglobal.net> wrote: 

> ** 
> 
> 
> Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. When I asked the questions about 
> evaporation I was thinking of the original poster's question. 
> 
> He said he had hard starting in a 67 Crown Coupe when the car sat for few 
> hours or more. He said the engine is all original and he has to pump 
> "forever" or pour gas in the carb to get it to start. He also said he does 
> not use ethanol. 
> 
> Some are suggesting that the fuel is evaporating. My question in response 
> to that was how is it evaporating. 
> 
> If the fuel is evaporating from the carb then how does it do this? I know 
> there are small bowl vents on a an orginal 1967 Holly carb and at least one 
> of those vents has a little cap that covers the vent when the throttle is 
> closed... but is it possible, even with 10% gasohol, that most of the fuel 
> from the bowl, a few fluid ounces worth, is evaporating through those small 
> vent openings over the course of a few hours? 
> 
> It is easy to investigate this. If you suspect this is happening, simply 
> remove that air horn from the carb and look. But I think a bad check valve 
> in the fuel pump can cause this by allowing the fuel to drain back by 
> gravity. 
> 
> I think the original posters problem is not related to evaporation. I 
> know, from personal experience, that this type of issue in Imperials from 
> the early 60's with a 413 engine can be caused by a weak fuel pump, severly 
> worn fuel pump push rod or bad check valves in the fuel pump. A weak 
> accelerator pump itself or bad check valve for the accelerator pump can 
> also cause this type of problem and this is very easy to check. If there is 
> fuel in the bowl and a squirt of fuel is not visible down the throat of the 
> carb when the throttle is pumped then it's there is a problem. 
> 
> A very basic evaluation of fuel pump efficiency can be made by 
> disconnecting the line at the carb, putting it in a container and cranking 
> the engine. I don't know of a way to evaluate the operation of the outlet 
> check valve in the fuel pump. I do know that the check valves and diaphram 
> in a fuel pump should be of viton rubber if you use an ethanol gasoline 
> mixture. 
> 
> I'd like to hear from people who use E10 fuel, have original equipment, 
> and do not have this type of problem. I have two 63's and a 62 and I use 
> E10 and don't have this problem. If I don't start a car for a month or two 
> I will have to pump it a few times but not if it sits for a few days or a 
> week. 
> Danno 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: mailto:staffel%40comcast.net 
> To: mailto:Imperial-Club%40yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 11:53 PM 
> Subject: [Imperial-Club] Ethanol evaporation 
> 
> Danno- Joe Machado gave a great explanation of the evaporation factor. 
> When you shut down a hot engine the evaporation is instantaneous. In 4-5 
> minutes on really hot days, on my single barrel Dodges and the Alum v8 
> Skylark 4brl, the evaporation can either 'air block' /vapor lock or flood 
> the intakes so hard starting occurs. You can smell the evaporating field 
> anywhere @ the front of the car. The gas formulation on the 1950-60's was 
> different. Didn't do this like today's fuels. 
> 
> So when the engine is hot a 1/3 to 1/2 minute or more of cranking is 
> required to either refill the fuel bowl; or cool the fuel bowl/ Carb with 
> cooler gas or air to clear by intake suction into the intake manifold to 
> enable starting. 
> 
> Even if the engines are hot and running and I turn them off if I 
> immediately restart the engine --/ no problem - instant fire. So its not 
> ignition or timing. Its the compounding effects of the 10% ethanol (alcohol 
> evaporation). 
> 
> Sherman Taffel 
> Columbia MD 
> 
> Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 

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