Re: [Chrysler300] Electric fuel pump & gas octane

[Tony Rinaldi <awrdoc@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Don,

Regarding ³Or is it necessary to retard the timing some to compensate?²:

DO NOT retard the spark to compensate for lower octane and/or crappy gas.

You will overheat the heads and exhaust manifolds causing valve guides and
gaskets to go bad. Retarding the spark will not necessarily make the running
temperature of the cooling system too hot. The only way you will know is
with a laser heat probe or when things start to fail.

I am attaching a previous post re an additive and ways to prevent its
necessary use.

Tony Rinaldi
300-F Conv¹t

³In response to some private inquires regarding my recent post, am repeated
a previous post with info regarding the theory behind using cold range plugs
below.

First this is an interesting post regarding using 108 Turbo Boost RACING
additive:

http://www.z06vette.com/forums/f6/solution-those-you-run-california-91-octan
e-crap-gas-5034/

Link to Yahoo sales site no longer is available. You can buy it by the case
from Blue Magic. You have to call the sales line and tell them that it is
not available any where including Pep Boys and you want to buy a case.

http://bluemagicusa.com/index.php/blue_magic/products/160/turbo_108_racing_f
uel_concentrate_32_oz/

Repeating the outline of most recent post regarding suggestions for
eliminating the use of Turbo Boost:

1. Change to cold range plugs (NGK)
2. Increase the jet size in primaries (my gas mileage remained the same.
(Went from .100 to .107)
3. Set the full timing advance with the vacuum CONNECTED.
4. Advance the timing as much as you can without hearing the crickets chirp.


Repeating previous post regarding the use of colder range plugs:

Leaded High Octane Fuel is no longer readily available.

{Before you delete this message, here is the bottom line: use colder spark
plugs with today's bad gas}

Gone are the days of the 99 octane or better gas.

Newer unleaded fuels burns hotter. Add ethanol and the fuels burn even
hotter. 

What do we do with our high compression, high performance engines? They
burned hot with the gas they were designed to run on. They burn even hotter
with today's pump gas.

Short of using racing gas and octane additives, we use 93 octane, if we can
get it. And we retard the spark. This eliminates detonation, associated with
lower octane, that is destructive to the engine internal parts.

But when we retard the spark to avoid pre-ignition, we further increase the
heat in the engine especially in the exhaust manifolds. The retarded timing
will allow the majority of the heat (Flame) to blow out of the exhaust
instead of keeping it in the cylinder to produce power.

Too hot of a heat range of the plugs, usually recommended for our engines,
indirectly leads to a runaway pre-ignition condition that can increase
engine temperature. We then have to retard the spark even further creating
more heat in the exhaust manifolds.

Heat from the combustion chamber escapes through the exhaust gases and the
side walls of the cylinders.

Ever wonder why we repeatedly have exhaust manifold leaks or we have boiling
gas in the bottom of our exhaust heated crossram carbs on really hot days?

We are generally limited in the availability and selection of spark plugs.
This means that we are using plugs with heat ranges that were good for
1960's gas not today's gas.

Not sure how well this subject has been covered in the past, but my race
mechanic shared some of the work around techniques that the NASCAR people
are using to deal with the elimination of leaded fuels in recent years.

In hotter heat range plugs, the tips remain hotter between firings and start
acting as glow plugs. The cylinder mixture will tend to prematurely ignite.

The use of newer spark plugs with colder heat ranges is a good option to
help relieve low octane detonation. These plugs fire with the same intensity
but have more insulation. This dissipates the heat from the tips quicker
thus eliminating pre-ignition.

A heat range refers to how much heat a spark plug is capable of removing
from the combustion chamber.

NASCAR is so big, spark plug manufacturers listen to them and are
manufacturing colder heat ranges.

The more internal modifications that are done to make our engines more
powerful, the more heat the engines generate.

Domestic plug manufacturers use designations where the higher numbers are
hotter heat ranges and the lower numbers are cooler.

NGK numbers are the opposite. 2 is the hottest and 12 is coldest heat range.

The NGK R5670-6 V-Power Plugs (NGK Stock #2746) for Big Block 413-426-440
(Raised Deck) with iron heads or Standard NGK Plugs XR5 (#3339) are close to
the heat range of an Autolite 85 which is the replacement plug for the
original A32 for wedge crossram engines. There are no heat range choices for
the Standard NGK XR5 plugs. The R5670 V-Power series of racing plugs do have
colder ranges however.

The rule of thumb is to use the coldest heat range plug that you can run
without fouling. NGK V-Power plugs are known for not Fouling readily
especially with the projected tips on the R5670s. Reference the following
quotes below about NGK V-Power plugs:

"These NGK V-Power spark plugs offer economical performance for nearly any
automotive application, and are the only plugs with NGK's V-Groove
technology. They enhance ignitability, lower the voltage requirement of
ignition systems, and have strong anti-fouling characteristics, while
improving fuel mileage and acceleration performance. The V-Power plugs also
are highly durable against electrical and chemical wear, making them a
long-life replacement plug. Because of the V-Groove, the spark occurs at the
edge of the center electrode. So heat is not absorbed by the electrode
itself. This allows the flame kernel to expand quickly and efficiently for a
complete burn and great performance." strokerengine.com

"NGK's V-grooved center electrode moves the spark to the outer edge of the
electrode for improved ignitability in all combustion chamber conditions.
This configuration is especially helpful for throttle responsiveness,
quicker corner exits, and more power on the bottom end in a drag race
engine. The high-purity alumina silicates used in the insulators of NGK
Spark Plugs helps keep the spark plug tip warm enough to burn off deposits
at low-speed, yet still be able to transfer enough heat during high-speed
operation to prevent detonation and pre-ignition.: NGK

"I have two cars with 440 engines and one car with a 360. Both 440 engines
were rebuilt and placed into service with Champion plugs in them. Both
engines fouled atleast one plug before they even had a hundred miles on
them. At the advice of a friend that owns a parts store, I went to NGK
V-Power plugs. No more fouled plugs. And my 360 that I rebuilt 6000 miles
ago also has the NGK V-Power plugs and hasn't fouled any." Mopar Enthusiast

Check your exhaust manifold temperature before with your existing plugs once
the engine is at operating temperature after a good run. You may want to
check and record other areas of the engine as well as take note of the
temperature gauge.

Harbor Freight sells a laser heat gun for about $20.

A good plug to consider starting with is one that is 2 heat ranges colder
than you are running now. NGK R5670-8 (#3354) V-Power plugs should do it.
About $20 for 8. They come in packs of 4. Then advance the timing.

If your engine has been rebuilt with lower compression, consider trying the
NGK R5670-7 (#2891) (one heat range cooler) to make up for the lower octane
unleaded fuel. Then advance the timing.

If you only can get fuel that is lower than 93 octane, add one more heat
range cooler than recommended above.

After you have installed your cooler plugs and advanced the timing
appropriately, check the exhaust manifold temperature in the same spot, as
well as your other reference points, once the engine is at operating
temperature after a good run.

The temperatures should be less and the drivability of your car should be
better.

My engine was built with larger cubic inches. I went to a NGK R5670-9
(#3913). 

Do you expect a different result by doing the same thing over and over
again?

Been there done that!

Did something different this time. It worked.²

Tony Rinaldi
300-F Conv't



From: Donald Nissen <fast-ace@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 12:50:30 -0500
To: Chrysler 300 Club <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Chrysler300] Electric fuel pump & gas octane

 
 
 
   

I would like to add an electric pump to be used as a boost pump for
starting. It would then be shut off and the mechanical pump would suck the
gas through the electric pump. I know many owners  have done this, but my
question is: Would the valves in the electric pump restrict the gas flow
enough to starve the engine at higher speeds? Might it cause it to run lean?
Our engines are thirsty beasts after all. Question 2: Is it necessary to use
an octane boost additive to compensate for the crappy alcohol fuel we are
forced to use? Or is it necessary to retard the timing some to compensate?
Any consensus thinking?
Don Nissen  300K

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