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Thank you to all that replied re Motorhome 413 motors and alloy case trans attached to it/them.
I was originally trying to keep the original '59 Dodge push button set up, and use a trans that had the late 50s 8 bolt crank to convertor pattern, as I found later 383s etc used a 6 bolt pattern, and therefore if I used a later 383, I could not bolt it up to a handbrake drum type torqueflight. So thanks to all those that replied, I now know later build Motorhome 413s use totally different heads (angled plugs etc), plus visibly have a huge/ugly water pump set up on front of engine, and yes the exhaust manifolds are clearly different - look better than later 283/440, but cannot be used a higher comp non motorhome heads. But it seems the alloy case torqueflight is a possible 'mate - bolt up' - to the later 60s 6 bolt 383/440 crankshaft/motor? (383 started 1959 (as per my Dodge) as an 8 bolt crank pattern, then in mid/late 60s? went to 6 bolt pattern) - and if that is true, it gives us early 300 owners a way to use the later/lighter alloy case 727 torqueflights in our early 300s - BUT ONLY IF USING THE early(late 50s into early 60s)/hemi 8 bolt convertors, which I guess might only be found in first alloy case torqueflights - used maybe about only 2 years? So it likely easier just to use a whole early 60s alloy case 727 Toprqueflight that still had handbrake on rear, and totally forget Motorhome one - only advantage with motorhome one is having later/standard slip yoke tailshaft end/driveshaft? If any of all this has been helpful to 300/413 equipped 300 owners, then we all now know a bit more, thanks to all from early autumn Australia, Christopher To: d.verity@xxxxxxx; reomotorsports1@xxxxxx; c300@xxxxxxx CC: mmoore8425@xxxxxxx; okbobwynmer@xxxxxxxxx; jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx; rpvitek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 14:05:16 -0500 Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] 413 motor I/d help Agree with Don; there were special steam vents around ,next to, or over the plug or exhaust valve locations, matching holes in motorhome block ???. I think I remember a special head gasket; if you use wrong , common one it blocks them, no end of trouble. Regular 440 heads apparently pressurize cooling system by boiling locally at those locations under heavy continuous loads, even though radiator temp is not that high = loss of coolant .Memory vague on this…
My main reason for writing on this is the mention of 727 TF with E brake on a 70 ;(70!!!) Working with J-Y , and a motor home guy he knew, we found out that “Winnebago” used a 727 / E Brake drum setup---but unsure of years or models. ; it has 4 bolts , not Detroit U joint junk, that mating part to it on a Winnebago mounts a regular big Spicer U joint to TF with E brake, ? same TF brake also used in 300’s 62-63 era . We went so far as to copy one of those in a steel billet, never could find that part. ; Later I found out that Denny’s driveshaft has that part , ( you must specify exact bolt pattern) lets you get rid of Detroit U joint for good. You then have a truck type slide spline in driveshaft proper . J-Y and I have done 3 of these now, problems gone. And a way to get 727 into a pre 62, if so inclined , keeping 300 rear axle, trans e brake.
Other way is ~70 Challenger 8 3/4 axle swap into 300 , also fits , 60 for sure , gets the back wheel E brakes , allows use of later 727 w or w/o e brake
john From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'Don Verity' d.verity@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Here is the response I sent to Chris regarding the motor home 413. Don I have a motor home 413, and it is quite different than a passenger car model. It would be considered the industrial version. The block is mostly the same, except for lower compression. They had a double roller timing chain also. The heads were completely different. They have additional water outlets on the front that attach to a huge water pump housing. The spark plug location is also different, it looks more like a small block set up. The valves also use rotators in the retainers to promote even wear. The exhaust manifolds are also special with a header like appearance and a 4 bolt flange on the end. They will not bolt to anything but the motor home head. Not a real desirable engine for a car unless you are going to just use the block and use some kind of boost. I’m going to use this block in my E which had a McCullooch supercharger installed when new at the dealer level. Mine is a 1970 version, and had the aluminum TF with the brake on the back.
I had hardend valve seats installed in my G when the engine was overhauled 10 years or so ago. They had no problem machining the valve pockets to accept the new seats.
I would be surprised if there was a significant difference in the casting for the truck 413 head vs the car casting.
I will say that when I worked in one of the nations largest CPD parts dealerships (late ’80’s), we actually kept 413 motorhome exhaust manifolds in stock as they sold well, cracking was a big problem.
On Mar 2, 2015, at 5:37 PM, 'Rich Barber' c300@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I read somewhere that it is risky to machine the heads in my ram K engine for hard seat inserts as there is not much “meat” under the lip and one might cut into the coolant passage. Any truth in that? The RV/truck engine would have a much different cam/carb/distributor advance configuration for high torque at low RPM and might be more susceptible to higher operating temperatures for long periods of time. Most of the heat from the valve heads can only flow to the coolant while the valve is closed and sitting on the seat. Testing in the engine lab helped define the need for different construction and coolant flow for different conditions. Nowadaze, this is all modeled on a computer which tends to produce pretty good results, I believe. C300K’ly, Rich Barber Brentwood, CA From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michael Mooremmoore8425@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300] Years ago when I experience my valve recession problem on my 300H with a fresh engine, the machine shop in Portland Oregon who put hgardened seats in my heads tried to convince me that I needed motorhome engine heads because they were cooled much better . I resistedbut have always wondered what THAT story was. Mike Moore 300H On Mar 2, 2015, at 1:08 PM, Robert Merritt okbobwynmer@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Caution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 413 Truck engines are not the same as 413 car engines. At least in the larger trucks, they have timing gears instead of chain, which means the cam and distributor turn backwards to car engines, and there are also oth er differences in push-rods, etc.. I once knew a shop that tried to install a car short block in a 2-ton farm truck, and couldn't get it to run. I shared both a car and truck shop manual with them and we finally got it figured out. I believe we ended up using a set of adjustable push-rods and a car distributor, but that has been 20+ years ago, so I may be wrong. It was just before harvest, and the farmer having the work done was frantic to get it going. Bob Merritt North central Oklahoma !965 barn-stored 300-L and parts car On Monday, March 2, 2015 12:04 PM, "John Nowosacki jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: I think there were also differences in the water pump/cooling/intake/heads on the motor home engines. The heads look like big block heads, but have slanted spark plugs like a 318 or 340. Water pump housing on front of motor was different, too. I used to have a set of heads, but couldn't even give them away at Carlisle.
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