RE: [Chrysler300] 300 Disc Brake Conversion Update

From: "'John Grady' jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 16:34:36 -0400

Looking forward to what you think , about just using it after this , and info on the rest of the hydraulic combo you have ; MC bore , booster,-- if any etc --- all this is a part of figuring out what is best. Valuable stuff I liked that clip a while back of 300B with huge Buick 12 x 3” wide aluminum finned drums on total contact 300B shoes. Out there racing like crazy recently in that clip, and doing well. . As did Carl. But getting them right not easy. Not sure what I think ; I am putting discs on an F right now too, mainly over the sudden pulling etc with stock, even after fussing all the time. Brakes are set up OK. . But pulls only rarely, sometimes, often when you least expect it, often after non use. .---- why the interest in all things brakes just now. I bought a HD disc kit with spindles for later C bodies, from a group in NC, not listed for an F, I realize I may have to get into ball joint / control arm bore mix and match , but I did that a long time ago, too . Does not fit 14 ‘ wheels. Like you , will post when I do it….a few months out right now. It uses all later stock OEM large car brake parts . I went non power after looking at Big Red setup at Pa meet, was thinking to do that anyway. .Hope I am right. I looked at Wilwood , was going to go that way ,then read about that test on Dart. So how real that is , (?) on a 300, can come from your efforts. On the test they totally lost the brakes. YOW. Telling me it is knock back, “that is normal”, does nothing for my sanity. Having driven many cars over the years, I formed some opinions net of 100k miles, as we all do. In same weight class, 70’s dodge truck discs are awful. Barely stop the truck. Tiny for a truck. MB 300D felt same way. So next truck was late 70’s GM , standard GMC 1500 . That truck had great, secure feeling brakes, very effective, why the AAJ thing is not so bad , to me. I understand the thinking .It worked exceptionally well on a million trucks if not 5 million. 10 x better than contemporary Chrysler/ Dodge. And I dislike Chevies…otherwise. Late 60’s Dodge big police car brakes(disc) are good too,..matching dual master readily available. TBD…. Lots of variables…. Thanks, Tony John From: Tony Rinaldi [mailto:awrdoc@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 3:45 PM To: John Grady Cc: 'Chrysler 300 Club' Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 300 Disc Brake Conversion Update Hi John, This does not happen in a daily driver only on a track under extreme curbing conditions. It is not specific to any one manufacturer. The fix on the track seems to be pumping the brakes or just touching the brake lightly as to "make the stop light go on." Tony Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone <https://yho.com/footer0> On Wednesday, August 31, 2016, 3:37 PM, John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: I do understand the mechanism, but it still means no brakes, randomly . I think that is a big , in fact huge factor for a daily driver? To me it sure is. Cars we all drive , we do not need to worry about this by design. Whatever the correction is? I think that is right. So it is a fault? Part of evaluation? Single puck must knockback too, maybe MC has enough volume to overcome the lost motion in puck? It must. Must also get into mix and match of masters , stroke volume, and # of pucks ….? From: Tony Rinaldi [mailto:awrdoc@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 2:37 PM To: John Grady; 'Chrysler 300 Club' Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 300 Disc Brake Conversion Update Hi John, "knockback" can happen to any disc brake set up on a track. See the following tech video on causes and correcting it while driving. Brake Knockback / knockback <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8-8qbqUL4k&sns=em> Text Box: Image removed by sender. Brake Knockback / knockback By Milspec Driving This video is about brake knockback or pad knockback. If the link does not work, go to YouTube.com and search for "brake knockback Milspec Driving 2014" I am using standard "F" booster & dual bowl master cylinder with proportioning valve and mechanical brake light switch. Taking a trip to Charlotte Motor Speedway Auto Fair from Philly later in Sept. Will let you know how well the brakes work. Tony Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone <https://yho.com/footer0> On Wednesday, August 31, 2016, 2:16 PM, 'John Grady' jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Thanks Tony—how does it work? What do you think? Used the F booster? Dual master? Can wait till you do report, just wondering about results. One of the big mags put wildwood kit on a dart or something, almost crashed late in test , as they are apparently subject to ‘knock back” ---what they called it --when rotors move on spindles or with axles on corner loading, the pucks get moved back and so many pucks and so much volume to fill then , that the master could not fill it on one stroke after driving hard at a track. Big surprise, no brakes, pedal to floor. Was working great before that . Lots of verbiage all around about that ---from all sides--- as you can imagine, but article left it unresolved, “working on it” . You experience any of that? It gave me pause. Thank you for sorting this out, great data, John From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tony Rinaldi awrdoc@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 1:19 PM To: Chrysler 300 Club Subject: [Chrysler300] 300 Disc Brake Conversion Update Hi to all, We have successfully installed Wilwood Disc Brake upgrades on my 300-F Convertible. The following are the disc brake upgrades now available for our 300s: AAJ Brakes SS Brakes Magnum Force/Wilwood Magnum Force/Wilwood Front Name/Number Front Brake Kit A154-4 Z-140-14227 Caliper 1 Piston 4 Piston 4 Piston Rotor 11" 11 1/4" X .08" 11 3/4" X 1 1/4" Rotor Slotted & Drilled? No Yes Yes Wheel Size 14" Wheel 14" Wheel 14" Wheel Rear Name/Number Rear Brake Kit A155-2 140-11386-D 140-10767-D Caliper 1 Piston 1 Piston 4 Piston 4 Piston Rotor 11" 10.5" X .93" 11" X 0.81" 12.9" X 0.81" Parking Brake No Yes Yes Yes Rotor Slotted & Drilled? No Yes Yes Yes Wheel Size 14" Wheel 14" Wheel 14" Wheel 15" Wheel Since my car has 15” wheels that accept 14” standard hubcaps we were able to use the larger rear kit with 12.9” rotors (140-10767-D). For 14” wheels there is a smaller kit with 11” rotors (140-11386-D). For 1962 and earlier 8 3/4” rears, the bolt pattern of the backing plate must be redrilled to match. 1963 and later 8 3/4” rear flanges with flattened top fit the bolt pattern supplied. Wilwood requires new green bearings to be pressed on to the rear axles. They supply clips to secure the bearings. Both Wilwood rear kits have emergency brakes. If you still have the e-brake on the end of the tranny, you do not have to use the Wilwood set-up. If you want to upgrade, you can connect to them. Requires Lokar front universal kit with special order longer cable and Willwood rear e-brake cable kit. The e-brake has brake linings that engage the inside of the rotor hat. Front Wilwood kits require Wilwood front brake lines with banjo fittings. Will be writing up a tech article with photos in the near future. Will post the link. Tony Rinaldi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Posted by: "John Grady" <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> ------------------------------------ To send a message to this group, send an email to: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or go to https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/all/manage/edit For list server instructions, go to http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang ------------------------------------ Yahoo Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chrysler300/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chrysler300/join (Yahoo! 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